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Re: Interim collaboration area @Google Code [message #481156] Wed, 19 August 2009 20:18 Go to next message
Werner Keil is currently offline Werner Keil
Messages: 1083
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi,

I know this project has almost been dead for quite a while.
Nevertheless, some of the code contributed by Frederick from the old OFMP
heritage looks promissing.

Please feel free to submit an "Executive Summary" for the Monetary System
aspects of this code by the end of August.

Which I present to the Executive Committee of the Java Community Process
(JCP.org) in Princeton next month.
The PMO signalled interest in it and would like to see ideas and proposals
for this requirement almost every commercial Java project has one way or the
other.

Given the recent financial crisis and many banks or other business customers
going out of business, or (including Microsoft!!) abandoning their support
for monetary systems and accounting after decades of selling them, an open
and transparent solutions trustworthy for the community seems more needed
than ever before.

Should you have ideas or recommendations in your own words you would like to
reach the Top 25 stakeholders in the Java and IT Industry (like IBM, Oracle,
HP, Eclipse and others) I appreciate your contribution to this. Otherwise
I'll have to stick to what has been on Google Code and the old OFMP site so
far and try to present it in my own words.

Werner
Re: Interim collaboration area @Google Code [message #541238 is a reply to message #481156] Fri, 18 June 2010 20:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Werner Keil is currently offline Werner Keil
Messages: 1083
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Since the wannabe successor Eclipse Financial has been withdrawn, would it
be possible to migrate your Google Code project for OFMP to Eclipse Labs?

http://code.google.com/p/support/issues/entry?template=Migra tion%20request

I can't disclose much here yet, but key committers to Project UOMo have
contributions in the Financial sector which we'll put under UOMo. Some may
be used by OFMP if they're able to contribute there, ideally under Eclipse
Labs ;-)

Werner
Re: Interim collaboration area @Google Code [message #541861 is a reply to message #541238] Tue, 22 June 2010 18:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Richard Gomes is currently offline Richard Gomes
Messages: 13
Registered: July 2009
Junior Member
Hi

I'd love to see something happening.
OFMP page continues the same as 2 years ago and EFP never took off :(

What UOMo is?
Could you give some more pointers?

Regards :)

Richard Gomes
W: +44(20)8555-7030
M: +44(77)9955-6813
http://www.jquantlib.org/index.php/User:RichardGomes
twitter: frgomes

JQuantLib is a library for Quantitative Finance written in Java.
http://www.jquantlib.org/
twitter: jquantlib

On 18/06/10 21:29, Werner Keil wrote:
> Since the wannabe successor Eclipse Financial has been withdrawn, would
> it be possible to migrate your Google Code project for OFMP to Eclipse
> Labs?
>
> http://code.google.com/p/support/issues/entry?template=Migra tion%20request
>
> I can't disclose much here yet, but key committers to Project UOMo have
> contributions in the Financial sector which we'll put under UOMo. Some
> may be used by OFMP if they're able to contribute there, ideally under
> Eclipse Labs ;-)
>
> Werner
Re: Interim collaboration area @Google Code [message #545640 is a reply to message #541861] Thu, 08 July 2010 13:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Werner Keil is currently offline Werner Keil
Messages: 1083
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
"Richard Gomes" <rgomes@jquantlib.org> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:4C210504.8030401@jquantlib.org...
> Hi
>
> I'd love to see something happening.
> OFMP page continues the same as 2 years ago and EFP never took off :(
>
> What UOMo is?
> Could you give some more pointers?
>
Please see the newsgroup "eclipse.uomo" here or the
Eclipse project proposals page:
http://www.eclipse.org/proposals/
Re: Interim collaboration area @Google Code [message #546726 is a reply to message #545640] Tue, 13 July 2010 22:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Richard Gomes is currently offline Richard Gomes
Messages: 13
Registered: July 2009
Junior Member
Hi Werner,

Thanks a lot for the link.

Regarding the new initiative and the new temporary whiteboard @
GoogleCode... well... please forgive me for what I'm about to write...

.... but I disbelief that things will change in comparison to OFMP or
EFP. I'd like to be wrong ... but I didn't see a single line of code in
SVN; the revision number is still 1; so, nothing happened since March,
when Alexey sent the first message on this topic. The wiki is absolutely
empty, everything else is absolutely empty. This list itself is pretty
silent.

Maybe everyone is waiting for activity before becoming themselves
active? (like me!)

Regarding UOMo... well... this is a pretty tiny subject when we think
about the wide subject of trading systems. Even JQuantLib, which is
considered by many as a large library, can be treated small (or even
tiny) given the very wide subject of trading systems.

I think that collaboration should happen for the benefit of all
participants but we need to have something, maybe a draft or manifesto.
This kind of document is necessary in order to guide people interested
on contributing. Not even a quick document like this can be found in the
wiki hosted at GoogleCode. :(

So, my sad and hard conclusion is that this project does not exist. :(
Again, I'm really sorry for my harsh words but you can be sure that I
will be delighted when someone proves I'm wrong and I will be delighted
when the day comes I commit something to the repository.

Kind Regards

Richard Gomes
W: +44(20)8555-7030
M: +44(77)9955-6813
http://www.jquantlib.org/index.php/User:RichardGomes
twitter: frgomes

JQuantLib is a library for Quantitative Finance written in Java.
http://www.jquantlib.org/
twitter: jquantlib

On 08/07/10 14:35, Werner Keil wrote:
>
> "Richard Gomes" <rgomes@jquantlib.org> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> news:4C210504.8030401@jquantlib.org...
>> Hi
>>
>> I'd love to see something happening.
>> OFMP page continues the same as 2 years ago and EFP never took off :(
>>
>> What UOMo is?
>> Could you give some more pointers?
>>
> Please see the newsgroup "eclipse.uomo" here or the
> Eclipse project proposals page:
> http://www.eclipse.org/proposals/
Re: Interim collaboration area @Google Code [message #546799 is a reply to message #546726] Wed, 14 July 2010 09:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Werner Keil is currently offline Werner Keil
Messages: 1083
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Glad to help.

I am not sure, if there's anything going to happen at OFMP, but it is not
directly related to us ar UOMo.
Frederic said, they'll migrate to Eclipse Labs, let's see if that attracts
new committers...?

>
> Regarding UOMo... well... this is a pretty tiny subject when we think
> about the wide subject of trading systems. Even JQuantLib, which is
> considered by many as a large library, can be treated small (or even
> tiny) given the very wide subject of trading systems.
>

It is a building block like EMF, most likely to even support it in some way.
If you find a way to use ICU4J (Measure/Currency) in JQuantLib, that'll be
fine, and compatible with both some of Google's projects and Eclipse UOMo or
its extensions towards financial use cases.

The most I'd imagine to see in UOMo itself is probably a more sophisticated
Currency class than ICU4J has and basic currency exchange on top of that.
Probably sets of rules or interfaces to use exchange rates in time and
context, but no concrete implementations. That's up to either you, OFMP or
custom projects.

> I think that collaboration should happen for the benefit of all
> participants but we need to have something, maybe a draft or manifesto.
> This kind of document is necessary in order to guide people interested
> on contributing. Not even a quick document like this can be found in the
> wiki hosted at GoogleCode. :(
>
> So, my sad and hard conclusion is that this project does not exist. :(
> Again, I'm really sorry for my harsh words but you can be sure that I
> will be delighted when someone proves I'm wrong and I will be delighted
> when the day comes I commit something to the repository.
>

Kind Regards,
Werner
Re: Interim collaboration area @Google Code [message #547454 is a reply to message #546799] Fri, 16 July 2010 22:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Richard Gomes is currently offline Richard Gomes
Messages: 13
Registered: July 2009
Junior Member
On 14/07/10 10:11, Werner Keil wrote:
>>
>> Regarding UOMo... well... this is a pretty tiny subject when we think
>> about the wide subject of trading systems. Even JQuantLib, which is
>> considered by many as a large library, can be treated small (or even
>> tiny) given the very wide subject of trading systems.
>>
>
> It is a building block like EMF, most likely to even support it in some
> way. If you find a way to use ICU4J (Measure/Currency) in JQuantLib,
> that'll be fine, and compatible with both some of Google's projects and
> Eclipse UOMo or its extensions towards financial use cases.
>
> The most I'd imagine to see in UOMo itself is probably a more
> sophisticated Currency class than ICU4J has and basic currency exchange
> on top of that. Probably sets of rules or interfaces to use exchange
> rates in time and context, but no concrete implementations. That's up to
> either you, OFMP or custom projects.
>

I will have a look at ICU4J and evaluate how it impacts performance.
IMHO, performance is 'the' critical issue when we talk about financial
applications written in Java. This issue must be considered and
addressed from the day one, every day, otherwise performance will be
poor when compared to C++.

In particular, I believe that enterprise class, low latency financial
applications need RTSJ or something better. GC must be removed from the
equation every time it is possible. Better than trying to solve the
problem of unpredictable performance due to GC, we'd better get rid of
GC whatsoever.

Unfortunately, it's difficult to obtain the best from both worlds at the
same time: (1) elegant programming language and (2) good performance.

>
> Kind Regards,
> Werner

Let's keep the ball rolling :)

Kind Regards

Richard Gomes
UOMo Financial [message #548438 is a reply to message #546799] Wed, 21 July 2010 20:36 Go to previous message
Werner Keil is currently offline Werner Keil
Messages: 1083
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Following the withdrawal of Eclipse Financial and evidence in these forums,
that OFMP wasn't too active either, I took a first step and published UOMo
Financial on SVN:
http://ikayzo.org/svn/UOMo/trunk/org.eclipse.uomo.financial/

Please feel free to take a R/O browse at it.
The only external dependency is Units of Measure API and some Eclipse
artifacts including OSGi. Everything else can be found in SVN.

Looking forward to your thoughs and experience,
Werner
Re: Interim collaboration area @Google Code [message #570040 is a reply to message #481156] Fri, 18 June 2010 20:29 Go to previous message
Werner Keil is currently offline Werner Keil
Messages: 1083
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Since the wannabe successor Eclipse Financial has been withdrawn, would it
be possible to migrate your Google Code project for OFMP to Eclipse Labs?

http://code.google.com/p/support/issues/entry?template=Migra tion%20request

I can't disclose much here yet, but key committers to Project UOMo have
contributions in the Financial sector which we'll put under UOMo. Some may
be used by OFMP if they're able to contribute there, ideally under Eclipse
Labs ;-)

Werner
Re: Interim collaboration area @Google Code [message #570073 is a reply to message #541238] Tue, 22 June 2010 18:46 Go to previous message
Richard Gomes is currently offline Richard Gomes
Messages: 13
Registered: July 2009
Junior Member
Hi

I'd love to see something happening.
OFMP page continues the same as 2 years ago and EFP never took off :(

What UOMo is?
Could you give some more pointers?

Regards :)

Richard Gomes
W: +44(20)8555-7030
M: +44(77)9955-6813
http://www.jquantlib.org/index.php/User:RichardGomes
twitter: frgomes

JQuantLib is a library for Quantitative Finance written in Java.
http://www.jquantlib.org/
twitter: jquantlib

On 18/06/10 21:29, Werner Keil wrote:
> Since the wannabe successor Eclipse Financial has been withdrawn, would
> it be possible to migrate your Google Code project for OFMP to Eclipse
> Labs?
>
> http://code.google.com/p/support/issues/entry?template=Migra tion%20request
>
> I can't disclose much here yet, but key committers to Project UOMo have
> contributions in the Financial sector which we'll put under UOMo. Some
> may be used by OFMP if they're able to contribute there, ideally under
> Eclipse Labs ;-)
>
> Werner
Re: Interim collaboration area @Google Code [message #570089 is a reply to message #541861] Thu, 08 July 2010 13:35 Go to previous message
Werner Keil is currently offline Werner Keil
Messages: 1083
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
"Richard Gomes" <rgomes@jquantlib.org> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:4C210504.8030401@jquantlib.org...
> Hi
>
> I'd love to see something happening.
> OFMP page continues the same as 2 years ago and EFP never took off :(
>
> What UOMo is?
> Could you give some more pointers?
>
Please see the newsgroup "eclipse.uomo" here or the
Eclipse project proposals page:
http://www.eclipse.org/proposals/
Re: Interim collaboration area @Google Code [message #570103 is a reply to message #545640] Tue, 13 July 2010 22:56 Go to previous message
Richard Gomes is currently offline Richard Gomes
Messages: 13
Registered: July 2009
Junior Member
Hi Werner,

Thanks a lot for the link.

Regarding the new initiative and the new temporary whiteboard @
GoogleCode... well... please forgive me for what I'm about to write...

.... but I disbelief that things will change in comparison to OFMP or
EFP. I'd like to be wrong ... but I didn't see a single line of code in
SVN; the revision number is still 1; so, nothing happened since March,
when Alexey sent the first message on this topic. The wiki is absolutely
empty, everything else is absolutely empty. This list itself is pretty
silent.

Maybe everyone is waiting for activity before becoming themselves
active? (like me!)

Regarding UOMo... well... this is a pretty tiny subject when we think
about the wide subject of trading systems. Even JQuantLib, which is
considered by many as a large library, can be treated small (or even
tiny) given the very wide subject of trading systems.

I think that collaboration should happen for the benefit of all
participants but we need to have something, maybe a draft or manifesto.
This kind of document is necessary in order to guide people interested
on contributing. Not even a quick document like this can be found in the
wiki hosted at GoogleCode. :(

So, my sad and hard conclusion is that this project does not exist. :(
Again, I'm really sorry for my harsh words but you can be sure that I
will be delighted when someone proves I'm wrong and I will be delighted
when the day comes I commit something to the repository.

Kind Regards

Richard Gomes
W: +44(20)8555-7030
M: +44(77)9955-6813
http://www.jquantlib.org/index.php/User:RichardGomes
twitter: frgomes

JQuantLib is a library for Quantitative Finance written in Java.
http://www.jquantlib.org/
twitter: jquantlib

On 08/07/10 14:35, Werner Keil wrote:
>
> "Richard Gomes" <rgomes@jquantlib.org> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> news:4C210504.8030401@jquantlib.org...
>> Hi
>>
>> I'd love to see something happening.
>> OFMP page continues the same as 2 years ago and EFP never took off :(
>>
>> What UOMo is?
>> Could you give some more pointers?
>>
> Please see the newsgroup "eclipse.uomo" here or the
> Eclipse project proposals page:
> http://www.eclipse.org/proposals/
Re: Interim collaboration area @Google Code [message #570116 is a reply to message #546726] Wed, 14 July 2010 09:11 Go to previous message
Werner Keil is currently offline Werner Keil
Messages: 1083
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Glad to help.

I am not sure, if there's anything going to happen at OFMP, but it is not
directly related to us ar UOMo.
Frederic said, they'll migrate to Eclipse Labs, let's see if that attracts
new committers...?

>
> Regarding UOMo... well... this is a pretty tiny subject when we think
> about the wide subject of trading systems. Even JQuantLib, which is
> considered by many as a large library, can be treated small (or even
> tiny) given the very wide subject of trading systems.
>

It is a building block like EMF, most likely to even support it in some way.
If you find a way to use ICU4J (Measure/Currency) in JQuantLib, that'll be
fine, and compatible with both some of Google's projects and Eclipse UOMo or
its extensions towards financial use cases.

The most I'd imagine to see in UOMo itself is probably a more sophisticated
Currency class than ICU4J has and basic currency exchange on top of that.
Probably sets of rules or interfaces to use exchange rates in time and
context, but no concrete implementations. That's up to either you, OFMP or
custom projects.

> I think that collaboration should happen for the benefit of all
> participants but we need to have something, maybe a draft or manifesto.
> This kind of document is necessary in order to guide people interested
> on contributing. Not even a quick document like this can be found in the
> wiki hosted at GoogleCode. :(
>
> So, my sad and hard conclusion is that this project does not exist. :(
> Again, I'm really sorry for my harsh words but you can be sure that I
> will be delighted when someone proves I'm wrong and I will be delighted
> when the day comes I commit something to the repository.
>

Kind Regards,
Werner
Re: Interim collaboration area @Google Code [message #570131 is a reply to message #546799] Fri, 16 July 2010 22:42 Go to previous message
Richard Gomes is currently offline Richard Gomes
Messages: 13
Registered: July 2009
Junior Member
On 14/07/10 10:11, Werner Keil wrote:
>>
>> Regarding UOMo... well... this is a pretty tiny subject when we think
>> about the wide subject of trading systems. Even JQuantLib, which is
>> considered by many as a large library, can be treated small (or even
>> tiny) given the very wide subject of trading systems.
>>
>
> It is a building block like EMF, most likely to even support it in some
> way. If you find a way to use ICU4J (Measure/Currency) in JQuantLib,
> that'll be fine, and compatible with both some of Google's projects and
> Eclipse UOMo or its extensions towards financial use cases.
>
> The most I'd imagine to see in UOMo itself is probably a more
> sophisticated Currency class than ICU4J has and basic currency exchange
> on top of that. Probably sets of rules or interfaces to use exchange
> rates in time and context, but no concrete implementations. That's up to
> either you, OFMP or custom projects.
>

I will have a look at ICU4J and evaluate how it impacts performance.
IMHO, performance is 'the' critical issue when we talk about financial
applications written in Java. This issue must be considered and
addressed from the day one, every day, otherwise performance will be
poor when compared to C++.

In particular, I believe that enterprise class, low latency financial
applications need RTSJ or something better. GC must be removed from the
equation every time it is possible. Better than trying to solve the
problem of unpredictable performance due to GC, we'd better get rid of
GC whatsoever.

Unfortunately, it's difficult to obtain the best from both worlds at the
same time: (1) elegant programming language and (2) good performance.

>
> Kind Regards,
> Werner

Let's keep the ball rolling :)

Kind Regards

Richard Gomes
UOMo Financial [message #570152 is a reply to message #546799] Wed, 21 July 2010 20:36 Go to previous message
Werner Keil is currently offline Werner Keil
Messages: 1083
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Following the withdrawal of Eclipse Financial and evidence in these forums,
that OFMP wasn't too active either, I took a first step and published UOMo
Financial on SVN:
http://ikayzo.org/svn/UOMo/trunk/org.eclipse.uomo.financial/

Please feel free to take a R/O browse at it.
The only external dependency is Units of Measure API and some Eclipse
artifacts including OSGi. Everything else can be found in SVN.

Looking forward to your thoughs and experience,
Werner
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