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SoaML support [message #478640] Sat, 25 July 2009 10:02 Go to next message
Eclipse UserFriend
Originally posted by: michael.gebhart.googlemail.com

Hi,

do you know if there is a support for SoaML planned for the future?
SoaML is a UML profile supporting the modeling of service oriented
architectures.

Or is eclipse.stp a better place to ask?

Best regards

Michael
Re: SoaML support [message #478641 is a reply to message #478640] Sun, 26 July 2009 10:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Vlad Varnica is currently offline Vlad VarnicaFriend
Messages: 546
Registered: July 2009
Location: Milton Keynes - UK
Senior Member
Hi Michael,

I am convinced that profile approach is better than DSL using proprietary
metamodel. I am totally confused when I see team playing with EMF creating
metamodels with no reality with any official specification. I mean DSL is
not a language like UML and it is not because you crea
It is better to use stereotype built on the top of UML inside a profile
because:
- you can reuse your models with UML2
- you can add your own and customize menus
- you can have graphical specific diagrams (I mean different icons or
shapes)
and a lot more
This SoaML profile is not currently implemented by any vendor (or maybe it
is but I don't know) and we will be pleased to help you in getting this
profile and a tight UML 2 integration respecting the latest OMG
specifications.
Re: SoaML support [message #478642 is a reply to message #478640] Sun, 26 July 2009 10:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Vlad Varnica is currently offline Vlad VarnicaFriend
Messages: 546
Registered: July 2009
Location: Milton Keynes - UK
Senior Member
Hi Michael,

This SoaML profile is not currently implemented by any tool or vendor (or
maybe it is but I don't know). btw, Eclipse community is so large that you
can always find a work around using open source or ISV.

I am convinced that profile approach is better than DSL using proprietary
metamodel. I am totally confused when I see teams playing with EMF
creating metamodels with no reality with any official specification. I
mean DSL is not a language like UML and it is not because you create a
metamodel using serialization that this is UML or it is a comprehensive
language.
A DSL is only usable by the team which has created it. I mean use it once
and loose it as soon as
I think that it is better to use stereotype built on the top of UML inside
a profile because:
- you can reuse your models with UML2
- you can add your own and customize menus
- you can have graphical specific diagrams (I mean different icons or
shapes)
and a lot more
We will be pleased to help you in getting this profile and a tight UML 2
integration respecting the latest OMG specifications.
We can create the profile and donate it to the community. It would work at
metamodel level but graphical integration will always be specific to every
tool.

We will have a look at this SoaML profile by the end of August 2009 and
could add this profile on our todo list. If you want to influence our
priority list and would like to get this profile next week :-) then feel
free to send a request to sales at omondo.com
Thanks,

Vlad VARNICA
OMONDO
Re: SoaML support [message #478645 is a reply to message #478642] Mon, 27 July 2009 15:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse UserFriend
Originally posted by: michael.gebhart.googlemail.com

Hi,

I've found that there is a UML profile on modeldriven.org for SoaML. The
entire product can only be used with MagicDraw. But, maybe the profile
can be used to create a customized SoaML Editor that is not only an UML
editor using the profile.

Best regards

Michael
Re: SoaML support [message #478647 is a reply to message #478645] Mon, 27 July 2009 21:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Vlad Varnica is currently offline Vlad VarnicaFriend
Messages: 546
Registered: July 2009
Location: Milton Keynes - UK
Senior Member
Hi Michael,

Thanks for the information because I didn't know about this profile.
I don't understand what you mean by saying "maybe the profile can be used
to create a customized SoaML Editor that is not only an UML editor using
the profile".

Do you mean to have an UML diagram with SOAML stereotypes or a SOAML
editor which is not related to UML ?

Vlad,
Re: SoaML support [message #478648 is a reply to message #478640] Mon, 27 July 2009 21:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
james bruck is currently offline james bruckFriend
Messages: 1724
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi Michael,

I'm not aware of any plans or work items regarding SoaML for the UML2
project.

Regards,
- James

"Michael Gebhart" <michael.gebhart@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:h4el81$iu8$1@build.eclipse.org...
> Hi,
>
> do you know if there is a support for SoaML planned for the future? SoaML
> is a UML profile supporting the modeling of service oriented
> architectures.
>
> Or is eclipse.stp a better place to ask?
>
> Best regards
>
> Michael
Re: SoaML support [message #478649 is a reply to message #478647] Tue, 28 July 2009 07:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse UserFriend
Originally posted by: michael.gebhart.googlemail.com

Hi,

the UML profile can simply be used with the current UML editor. You can
create UML diagrams using the stereotypes of the profile.

But I think for SoaML more features would be great. Creating WSDL files
from SoaML diagrams etc.

Thus, the profile + using the standard UML editor is only the beginning.
SoaML seems to be so much more, so it would be nice to enhance the UML
editor with SoaML specifics.

Best regards

Michael

> Hi Michael,
>
> Thanks for the information because I didn't know about this profile.
> I don't understand what you mean by saying "maybe the profile can be
> used to create a customized SoaML Editor that is not only an UML editor
> using the profile".
>
> Do you mean to have an UML diagram with SOAML stereotypes or a SOAML
> editor which is not related to UML ?
>
> Vlad,
>
>
Re: SoaML support [message #478650 is a reply to message #478649] Tue, 28 July 2009 09:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Vlad Varnica is currently offline Vlad VarnicaFriend
Messages: 546
Registered: July 2009
Location: Milton Keynes - UK
Senior Member
Hi Michael,

The idea is really good. In 2006 I asked a phd student to complete a
transformation rule engine to create Bpel executable code directly from a
state diagram. Everything worked fine and the student got its degree :-)
The feature has been included in the tool but nobody has really used it
till today.

It could be because we have just added a code generation feature and not a
full profile. It seems also that this profile is only now an official OMG
profile. I found that Sparx is providing such a profile, you could have
look.

My idea is that too many models are not possible in an agile project,
therefore having SOA and UML using the same metamodel would simplify
project complexity and allow round trip during project life. It could save
over 80% of time to delivery projects. This is not a joke, because
developers are useful and having object approach with SOA in a metamodel
logic is the key to save time and add quality, maintainability to new
projects. This approach can't really work for exiting projects but for new
project this is really perfect.

It seems that market is getting more mature and this idea is shared by
more and more person. The SOAML profile is a first step and really cool.
I will ask the dev team to complete this profile immediately and also
includes the second code generation step with graphical stereotypes
features in the tool by the end of the year.
Thanks for your post and helping ISV to discover your needs.

Vlad,
Re: SoaML support [message #478651 is a reply to message #478650] Tue, 28 July 2009 11:40 Go to previous message
Eclipse UserFriend
Originally posted by: michael.gebhart.googlemail.com

Hi Vlad,

nice! I think that SoaML is a good basis for an entire SOA framework.
According to OMG SoaML can be used together with BPMN etc. Would be
great to combine all these SOA relevant standards within one tool to get
an integrated tool chain.

Take a look at this:

http://www.opengroup.org/projects/soa/uploads/40/20044/W096. pdf

It shows the different open standards for SOA and their relations.

Best regards

Michael

> Hi Michael,
>
> The idea is really good. In 2006 I asked a phd student to complete a
> transformation rule engine to create Bpel executable code directly from
> a state diagram. Everything worked fine and the student got its degree :-)
> The feature has been included in the tool but nobody has really used it
> till today.
>
> It could be because we have just added a code generation feature and not
> a full profile. It seems also that this profile is only now an official
> OMG profile. I found that Sparx is providing such a profile, you could
> have look.
>
> My idea is that too many models are not possible in an agile project,
> therefore having SOA and UML using the same metamodel would simplify
> project complexity and allow round trip during project life. It could
> save over 80% of time to delivery projects. This is not a joke, because
> developers are useful and having object approach with SOA in a metamodel
> logic is the key to save time and add quality, maintainability to new
> projects. This approach can't really work for exiting projects but for
> new project this is really perfect.
>
> It seems that market is getting more mature and this idea is shared by
> more and more person. The SOAML profile is a first step and really cool.
> I will ask the dev team to complete this profile immediately and also
> includes the second code generation step with graphical stereotypes
> features in the tool by the end of the year. Thanks for your post and
> helping ISV to discover your needs.
>
> Vlad,
>
>
Re: SoaML support [message #627820 is a reply to message #478640] Sun, 26 July 2009 10:39 Go to previous message
Vlad Varnica is currently offline Vlad VarnicaFriend
Messages: 546
Registered: July 2009
Location: Milton Keynes - UK
Senior Member
Hi Michael,

I am convinced that profile approach is better than DSL using proprietary
metamodel. I am totally confused when I see team playing with EMF creating
metamodels with no reality with any official specification. I mean DSL is
not a language like UML and it is not because you crea
It is better to use stereotype built on the top of UML inside a profile
because:
- you can reuse your models with UML2
- you can add your own and customize menus
- you can have graphical specific diagrams (I mean different icons or
shapes)
and a lot more
This SoaML profile is not currently implemented by any vendor (or maybe it
is but I don't know) and we will be pleased to help you in getting this
profile and a tight UML 2 integration respecting the latest OMG
specifications.
Re: SoaML support [message #627821 is a reply to message #478640] Sun, 26 July 2009 10:54 Go to previous message
Vlad Varnica is currently offline Vlad VarnicaFriend
Messages: 546
Registered: July 2009
Location: Milton Keynes - UK
Senior Member
Hi Michael,

This SoaML profile is not currently implemented by any tool or vendor (or
maybe it is but I don't know). btw, Eclipse community is so large that you
can always find a work around using open source or ISV.

I am convinced that profile approach is better than DSL using proprietary
metamodel. I am totally confused when I see teams playing with EMF
creating metamodels with no reality with any official specification. I
mean DSL is not a language like UML and it is not because you create a
metamodel using serialization that this is UML or it is a comprehensive
language.
A DSL is only usable by the team which has created it. I mean use it once
and loose it as soon as
I think that it is better to use stereotype built on the top of UML inside
a profile because:
- you can reuse your models with UML2
- you can add your own and customize menus
- you can have graphical specific diagrams (I mean different icons or
shapes)
and a lot more
We will be pleased to help you in getting this profile and a tight UML 2
integration respecting the latest OMG specifications.
We can create the profile and donate it to the community. It would work at
metamodel level but graphical integration will always be specific to every
tool.

We will have a look at this SoaML profile by the end of August 2009 and
could add this profile on our todo list. If you want to influence our
priority list and would like to get this profile next week :-) then feel
free to send a request to sales at omondo.com
Thanks,

Vlad VARNICA
OMONDO
Re: SoaML support [message #627824 is a reply to message #478642] Mon, 27 July 2009 15:26 Go to previous message
Eclipse UserFriend
Originally posted by: michael.gebhart.googlemail.com

Hi,

I've found that there is a UML profile on modeldriven.org for SoaML. The
entire product can only be used with MagicDraw. But, maybe the profile
can be used to create a customized SoaML Editor that is not only an UML
editor using the profile.

Best regards

Michael
Re: SoaML support [message #627825 is a reply to message #478645] Mon, 27 July 2009 21:00 Go to previous message
Vlad Varnica is currently offline Vlad VarnicaFriend
Messages: 546
Registered: July 2009
Location: Milton Keynes - UK
Senior Member
Hi Michael,

Thanks for the information because I didn't know about this profile.
I don't understand what you mean by saying "maybe the profile can be used
to create a customized SoaML Editor that is not only an UML editor using
the profile".

Do you mean to have an UML diagram with SOAML stereotypes or a SOAML
editor which is not related to UML ?

Vlad,
Re: SoaML support [message #627826 is a reply to message #478640] Mon, 27 July 2009 21:09 Go to previous message
james bruck is currently offline james bruckFriend
Messages: 1724
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi Michael,

I'm not aware of any plans or work items regarding SoaML for the UML2
project.

Regards,
- James

"Michael Gebhart" <michael.gebhart@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:h4el81$iu8$1@build.eclipse.org...
> Hi,
>
> do you know if there is a support for SoaML planned for the future? SoaML
> is a UML profile supporting the modeling of service oriented
> architectures.
>
> Or is eclipse.stp a better place to ask?
>
> Best regards
>
> Michael
Re: SoaML support [message #627827 is a reply to message #478647] Tue, 28 July 2009 07:28 Go to previous message
Eclipse UserFriend
Originally posted by: michael.gebhart.googlemail.com

Hi,

the UML profile can simply be used with the current UML editor. You can
create UML diagrams using the stereotypes of the profile.

But I think for SoaML more features would be great. Creating WSDL files
from SoaML diagrams etc.

Thus, the profile + using the standard UML editor is only the beginning.
SoaML seems to be so much more, so it would be nice to enhance the UML
editor with SoaML specifics.

Best regards

Michael

> Hi Michael,
>
> Thanks for the information because I didn't know about this profile.
> I don't understand what you mean by saying "maybe the profile can be
> used to create a customized SoaML Editor that is not only an UML editor
> using the profile".
>
> Do you mean to have an UML diagram with SOAML stereotypes or a SOAML
> editor which is not related to UML ?
>
> Vlad,
>
>
Re: SoaML support [message #627828 is a reply to message #478649] Tue, 28 July 2009 09:26 Go to previous message
Vlad Varnica is currently offline Vlad VarnicaFriend
Messages: 546
Registered: July 2009
Location: Milton Keynes - UK
Senior Member
Hi Michael,

The idea is really good. In 2006 I asked a phd student to complete a
transformation rule engine to create Bpel executable code directly from a
state diagram. Everything worked fine and the student got its degree :-)
The feature has been included in the tool but nobody has really used it
till today.

It could be because we have just added a code generation feature and not a
full profile. It seems also that this profile is only now an official OMG
profile. I found that Sparx is providing such a profile, you could have
look.

My idea is that too many models are not possible in an agile project,
therefore having SOA and UML using the same metamodel would simplify
project complexity and allow round trip during project life. It could save
over 80% of time to delivery projects. This is not a joke, because
developers are useful and having object approach with SOA in a metamodel
logic is the key to save time and add quality, maintainability to new
projects. This approach can't really work for exiting projects but for new
project this is really perfect.

It seems that market is getting more mature and this idea is shared by
more and more person. The SOAML profile is a first step and really cool.
I will ask the dev team to complete this profile immediately and also
includes the second code generation step with graphical stereotypes
features in the tool by the end of the year.
Thanks for your post and helping ISV to discover your needs.

Vlad,
Re: SoaML support [message #627829 is a reply to message #478650] Tue, 28 July 2009 11:40 Go to previous message
Eclipse UserFriend
Originally posted by: michael.gebhart.googlemail.com

Hi Vlad,

nice! I think that SoaML is a good basis for an entire SOA framework.
According to OMG SoaML can be used together with BPMN etc. Would be
great to combine all these SOA relevant standards within one tool to get
an integrated tool chain.

Take a look at this:

http://www.opengroup.org/projects/soa/uploads/40/20044/W096. pdf

It shows the different open standards for SOA and their relations.

Best regards

Michael

> Hi Michael,
>
> The idea is really good. In 2006 I asked a phd student to complete a
> transformation rule engine to create Bpel executable code directly from
> a state diagram. Everything worked fine and the student got its degree :-)
> The feature has been included in the tool but nobody has really used it
> till today.
>
> It could be because we have just added a code generation feature and not
> a full profile. It seems also that this profile is only now an official
> OMG profile. I found that Sparx is providing such a profile, you could
> have look.
>
> My idea is that too many models are not possible in an agile project,
> therefore having SOA and UML using the same metamodel would simplify
> project complexity and allow round trip during project life. It could
> save over 80% of time to delivery projects. This is not a joke, because
> developers are useful and having object approach with SOA in a metamodel
> logic is the key to save time and add quality, maintainability to new
> projects. This approach can't really work for exiting projects but for
> new project this is really perfect.
>
> It seems that market is getting more mature and this idea is shared by
> more and more person. The SOAML profile is a first step and really cool.
> I will ask the dev team to complete this profile immediately and also
> includes the second code generation step with graphical stereotypes
> features in the tool by the end of the year. Thanks for your post and
> helping ISV to discover your needs.
>
> Vlad,
>
>
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