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Suggestion for UML2 newbie? [message #476483] Fri, 15 May 2009 11:13 Go to next message
Eclipse UserFriend
Originally posted by: sledz.dresearch.de

Hi NG,

we like to draw some activity, use case, and sequence diagrams in our project (for now no class diagrams or code generation). We decided to use UML2 (especially XMI as interchange format) in the hope creating the diagrams in a standardized format. Looking for a free tooling we came to Eclipse MDT-UML2Tools and later reading this group we discovered Papyrus.

But both seem to be very heavy if you just want to draw some diagrams. Also in the first we miss the sequence and in the second the activity diagrams. And we found no easy way to save/load the diagrams as XMI in an easy way.

Do you have some suggestion how to tackle our problem? Is Eclipse the right tool for our purposes? Where can we found helpful documentation (the one we found until now focused on modelling and class diagrams)?

Thanx for some hints,
Steffen
Re: Suggestion for UML2 newbie? [message #476484 is a reply to message #476483] Fri, 15 May 2009 12:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Vlad Varnica is currently offline Vlad VarnicaFriend
Messages: 546
Registered: July 2009
Location: Milton Keynes - UK
Senior Member
Hi Steffen,

I don't think that Papyrus or Eclipse Modeling project are difficult to
use. I agree that if you don't know Eclipse you need time to get used to
it. If you know Eclipse and UML then you can create a diagram and model in
just few hours.
For Free and open source tools this is really good quality and the best on
the free tool UML market.

Don't forget that you must decide when you start with Eclipse what to
select:
If you don't pay for any tool then you should contribute (e.g. bug report,
codding, etc....) in order to help this tool to improve.
If youbuy tools such as EclipseUML then you have the right to expect
quality and support. Nobody will also ask you to contribute to the code
and you can focus on your company needs.

Let me tell you that it is too easy just come and ask for free and not to
give anything except criticism !!

Concerning your demands:
"We decided to use UML2 (especially XMI as interchange format) in the hope
creating the diagrams in a standardized format." It is the same answer.
You either use free tools and generate XMI export from EMF or you use
EclipseUML and have already a native XMI.
If you have time you should select free tools and do it manually, if you
don't have time then you should buy existing tools.

"Is Eclipse the right tool for our purposes?" Yes, it is if you select
either free or non free tool approach. I mean you can't get for free
everything. You should either contribute to the community or pay for tools.

Vlad,
Re: Suggestion for UML2 newbie? [message #476485 is a reply to message #476483] Sun, 17 May 2009 23:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lazar Codrut-Lucian is currently offline Lazar Codrut-LucianFriend
Messages: 91
Registered: July 2009
Member
When you create a diagram, you actually create two things:
- the model (a class, a package, an actor, a use-case)
- the notational model (the position and dimensions of figures, the
colors, ...).

While the <model> has a big chance of being interchangeable between
tools, the <notational model> doesn't.

This is because the notational model may be totally different between
tools: OMG proposed the Diagram Interchance standard which is used by
some tools, while Eclipse GMF project, on which Uml2Tools is based, uses
its own Notational Model (this means different nodes in XMI files and
different classes in Java).

Even if the same notational model is used, the structure of the nodes
may be different. Some tools could save more details than others, or use
different compartment names than others. It could be that the structure
is actually well defined in Diagram Interchange, but I couldn't find
many details when I looked for them.

This means that there is little chance that you can interchange
<diagrams>, unless the tools took explicit measures to support the
interchange (it seems to me that you want to interchange <diagrams>, not
just <models>).

Lucian

Steffen Sledz wrote:
> Hi NG,
>
> we like to draw some activity, use case, and sequence diagrams in our project (for now no class diagrams or code generation). We decided to use UML2 (especially XMI as interchange format) in the hope creating the diagrams in a standardized format. Looking for a free tooling we came to Eclipse MDT-UML2Tools and later reading this group we discovered Papyrus.
>
> But both seem to be very heavy if you just want to draw some diagrams. Also in the first we miss the sequence and in the second the activity diagrams. And we found no easy way to save/load the diagrams as XMI in an easy way.
>
> Do you have some suggestion how to tackle our problem? Is Eclipse the right tool for our purposes? Where can we found helpful documentation (the one we found until now focused on modelling and class diagrams)?
>
> Thanx for some hints,
> Steffen
>
Re: Suggestion for UML2 newbie? [message #476486 is a reply to message #476484] Mon, 18 May 2009 00:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lazar Codrut-Lucian is currently offline Lazar Codrut-LucianFriend
Messages: 91
Registered: July 2009
Member
Vlad Varnica wrote:
> Don't forget that you must decide when you start with Eclipse what to
> select:
> If you don't pay for any tool then you should contribute (e.g. bug
> report, codding, etc....) in order to help this tool to improve. If
> youbuy tools such as EclipseUML then you have the right to expect
> quality and support. Nobody will also ask you to contribute to the code
> and you can focus on your company needs.

I thought free software is simply free. Is there something in the readme
files telling otherwise?

> Let me tell you that it is too easy just come and ask for free and not
> to give anything except criticism !!

He was just asking a question. It looks like you are harassing him with
no reason.

> "Is Eclipse the right tool for our purposes?" Yes, it is if you select
> either free or non free tool approach. I mean you can't get for free
> everything. You should either contribute to the community or pay for tools.

I don't think people have to make this choice.

It is nice if people contribute to a free tool, if they have the
knowledge, time and will to do so. But it is not an obligation.

Lucian
Re: Suggestion for UML2 newbie? [message #476487 is a reply to message #476485] Mon, 18 May 2009 08:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Vlad Varnica is currently offline Vlad VarnicaFriend
Messages: 546
Registered: July 2009
Location: Milton Keynes - UK
Senior Member
Hi Lucian,

My comment below:

You say: "When you create a diagram, you actually create two things:
- the model (a class, a package, an actor, a use-case)
- the notational model (the position and dimensions of figures, the
colors, ...).While the <model> .........."

The graphical presentation is specific to each tool and only XMI is the
same. I really don't understand why you say that OMG is trying to to have
a common graphical notation. This is a non sense and a waste of time !! I
think that if we contact the OMG and explain them our Eclipse point of
view they will be pleased to accept it and add another research project
:-). The Exported XMI from small diagram models using GMF and ATL (e.g.
Papyrus, Eclipse Modeling, Topcased) or full UML Superstructure Export
(e.g. RSA) or native UML integration of UML Superstructure Model (e.g
Omondo EclipseUML) could all interchange models between between them. The
only difference is the software architecture and graphical information.
What is important is the model and not the other information. Have a look
at my article you will see that you can rebuild a diagram from an UML
Superstructure Model (e.g the metamodel). This diagram is therefore a view
of the metamodel. See my article at:
http://www.forum-omondo.com/documentation_eclipseuml_2008/ec lipseuml2008_dynamic_navigation.html#4._Navigate_inside_the_ Xerces

Saving graphical information is not appropriate and not needed anymore
because:

1. Diagrams are a view of the UML Superstructure Model and not the model
itself.
2. You can for example save all notes, comments and constraints in the UML
Superstructure and then use show hide feature to display or not this
information.
3. Why to save static position if UML is now a live navigation ? You can
use the layout feature and get a clean diagram in just few seconds. You
can also customize everything inside your diagrams.

Thanks for your post.
Re: Suggestion for UML2 newbie? [message #476488 is a reply to message #476486] Mon, 18 May 2009 09:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Vlad Varnica is currently offline Vlad VarnicaFriend
Messages: 546
Registered: July 2009
Location: Milton Keynes - UK
Senior Member
Lucian,

I think this is a moral obligation to contribute to open source or free
tool or to buy ISV tools. I fully agree that students, independent
consultants etc... could use tool for free and not to contribute. The
problem is that large corporations are using free tools just to reduce
their software investment and not to create any value !! After few years
they just move from one to another tool always looking for free. Look what
happened on the plugin market since Eclipse 3.2. Do you really think that
plugins are now better now than in 2005 ? How many plugins just
disappeared ?

Last time I was talking with a friend working for a very large corporation
in US and UK. He said to me "We are stuck because we still use Eclipse 3.2
plugins and it is impossible to upgrade now because these plugins doesn't
exist anymore".
I answered that they have never invested .....He said we didn't know how
Eclipse community was working but we made a mistake...
The result is that the Eclipse 3.2 projects has been be delivered and then
frozen. No upgrade, or new requirements, just bug fixes. This is too bad !!

If we don't respect some rules our current technology will disappear
because of lack of quality and innovation.
I fully understand you today's point of view but don't forget that I am on
this market since 2001 and I have seen and know what will happen if we
keep going that way.
Re: Suggestion for UML2 newbie? [message #476489 is a reply to message #476483] Mon, 18 May 2009 12:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Tatiana Fesenko is currently offline Tatiana FesenkoFriend
Messages: 530
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hello Steffen,

> Also in the first we miss the sequence and in the second the activity
> diagrams.
Sequence diagram is a part of UML2Tools since Galileo M4. So, it is available
in the latest stable build of UML2Tools, Galileo M7 ( http://www.eclipse.org/modeling/mdt/downloads/?project=uml2t ools&showAll=1&hlbuild=S200905080854#S200905080854).


> And we found no easy way to save/load the diagrams as XMI in
> an easy way.
I guess, you mean an algorithm described here -- http://wiki.eclipse.org/MDT-UML2Tools_FAQ#How_can_I_export_m y_UML_model_to_XMI.3F.

Save/load diagrams in XMI is not very simple now, but everybody is free to
improve this functionality and contribute it to Eclipse.

> Do you have some suggestion how to tackle our problem? Is Eclipse the
> right tool for our purposes? Where can we found helpful documentation
> (the one we found until now focused on modelling and class diagrams)?
Refences to all existing documentation for UML2Tools can be found here --
http://wiki.eclipse.org/MDT-UML2Tools#Documentation . Actually, as other
open-source projects, UML2Tools has many cool features, but just some of
them are well-documented. I'll try to create a little bit more documentation
after RC1 build.

Best wishes,
Tanya.
Re: Suggestion for UML2 newbie? [message #476490 is a reply to message #476487] Mon, 18 May 2009 12:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lazar Codrut-Lucian is currently offline Lazar Codrut-LucianFriend
Messages: 91
Registered: July 2009
Member
Vlad Varnica wrote:
> The graphical presentation is specific to each tool and only XMI is the
> same. I really don't understand why you say that OMG is trying to to
> have a common graphical notation. This is a non sense and a waste of
> time !! I think that if we contact the OMG and explain them our Eclipse
> point of view they will be pleased to accept it and add another research
> project :-).

Please take a look at this OMG standard:
Diagram Interchange, v1.0
http://www.omg.org/technology/documents/formal/diagram.htm

The existence of this standard means that OMG is trying to promote a
common graphical notation.

GMF (which also means Uml2Tools) uses its own Notation Model:
http://help.eclipse.org/help33/index.jsp?topic=/org.eclipse. gmf.doc/prog-guide/runtime/Developer%20Guide%20to%20Diagram% 20Runtime.html

As I know, OMG and Eclipse are working on bringing the standards to
common ground.

> Saving graphical information is not appropriate and not needed anymore
> because:
> 1. Diagrams are a view of the UML Superstructure Model and not the model
> itself.
> 2. You can for example save all notes, comments and constraints in the
> UML Superstructure and then use show hide feature to display or not this
> information. 3. Why to save static position if UML is now a live
> navigation ? You can use the layout feature and get a clean diagram in
> just few seconds. You can also customize everything inside your diagrams.

Some people spend time on the representation. Automatic layout is good
in general, but it might not be suitable in every situation.

Lucian
UML graphical interchange is technologically impossible [message #476491 is a reply to message #476490] Mon, 18 May 2009 13:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Vlad Varnica is currently offline Vlad VarnicaFriend
Messages: 546
Registered: July 2009
Location: Milton Keynes - UK
Senior Member
Lucian,

The OMG document you mention was published in 2006.
Who is really still working on this subject ?
Do you really think it is important ? I don't think so.
GMF is one of the best technological innovation in the last few years
regardless that it doesn't use this graphical interchange specification.

The key point is the EMF serialization of the model which makes model
interchange a reality today. Graphical information can not and will never
be possible to interchange. This is just impossible because of
technological different specifications between SWT and Swing.
This OMG specification is therefore impossible to implement today. I agree
that the idea is good but...

I also agree that automatic layout is not always suitable. We should
sometimes do it manually and this is painful.
Re: Suggestion for UML2 newbie? [message #476492 is a reply to message #476489] Mon, 18 May 2009 21:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lars Vogel is currently offline Lars VogelFriend
Messages: 1049
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member

Hi Tatiana,

which features are not well-documented? Perhaps I can extect my tutorial
at http://www.vogella.de/articles/UML/article.html

Best regards, Lars

Tatiana Fesenko wrote:
UML2Tools has many cool features, but just
> some of them are well-documented. I'll try to create a little bit more
> documentation after RC1 build.
>
> Best wishes,
> Tanya.
>
>
Re: Suggestion for UML2 newbie? [message #476493 is a reply to message #476492] Tue, 19 May 2009 07:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Tatiana Fesenko is currently offline Tatiana FesenkoFriend
Messages: 530
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi Lars,

Basically newly implemented features need documentation. They are described
shortly at http://wiki.eclipse.org/index.php?title=MDT/UML2Tools/New_an d_Noteworthy/Galileo
..

I prioritize them in the following way:
1) Diagram synchronization is number one in my 'to document' list. It is
a really wanted feature, but there is no article on it.
2) Then go improvements in creating new diagrams process (bugs #257664, #268252,
#174315).
3) New features in working with profiles

It would be wonderful if you or somebody else from the community documented
some of these or smaller features.

Tanya.

> which features are not well-documented? Perhaps I can extect my
> tutorial at http://www.vogella.de/articles/UML/article.html
Re: Suggestion for UML2 newbie? [message #476494 is a reply to message #476483] Tue, 19 May 2009 14:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse UserFriend
Originally posted by: sledz.dresearch.de

At first thanx for all the useful hints.

Now i've just one open question: Should i use Papyrus with it's own perspective or the UML2Tools?
(Are there graphical notations compatible? e.g. can i edit a sequence diagram created with Papyrus/Ganymede later with UML2Tools/Galileo?)

Steffen

PS: I'm not only a user of free software. There are some other projects where i'm contributing to. ;-)
Re: Suggestion for UML2 newbie? [message #476496 is a reply to message #476494] Wed, 20 May 2009 17:16 Go to previous message
Lars Vogel is currently offline Lars VogelFriend
Messages: 1049
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member

As you are posting this question in the UML2Tools newsgroup I assume the
advice is a bit biosed: Use UML2Tools

Steffen Sledz wrote:
> At first thanx for all the useful hints.
>
> Now i've just one open question: Should i use Papyrus with it's own perspective or the UML2Tools?
> (Are there graphical notations compatible? e.g. can i edit a sequence diagram created with Papyrus/Ganymede later with UML2Tools/Galileo?)
>
> Steffen
>
> PS: I'm not only a user of free software. There are some other projects where i'm contributing to. ;-)
>
Re: Suggestion for UML2 newbie? [message #623887 is a reply to message #476483] Fri, 15 May 2009 12:57 Go to previous message
Vlad Varnica is currently offline Vlad VarnicaFriend
Messages: 546
Registered: July 2009
Location: Milton Keynes - UK
Senior Member
Hi Steffen,

I don't think that Papyrus or Eclipse Modeling project are difficult to
use. I agree that if you don't know Eclipse you need time to get used to
it. If you know Eclipse and UML then you can create a diagram and model in
just few hours.
For Free and open source tools this is really good quality and the best on
the free tool UML market.

Don't forget that you must decide when you start with Eclipse what to
select:
If you don't pay for any tool then you should contribute (e.g. bug report,
codding, etc....) in order to help this tool to improve.
If youbuy tools such as EclipseUML then you have the right to expect
quality and support. Nobody will also ask you to contribute to the code
and you can focus on your company needs.

Let me tell you that it is too easy just come and ask for free and not to
give anything except criticism !!

Concerning your demands:
"We decided to use UML2 (especially XMI as interchange format) in the hope
creating the diagrams in a standardized format." It is the same answer.
You either use free tools and generate XMI export from EMF or you use
EclipseUML and have already a native XMI.
If you have time you should select free tools and do it manually, if you
don't have time then you should buy existing tools.

"Is Eclipse the right tool for our purposes?" Yes, it is if you select
either free or non free tool approach. I mean you can't get for free
everything. You should either contribute to the community or pay for tools.

Vlad,
Re: Suggestion for UML2 newbie? [message #623888 is a reply to message #476483] Sun, 17 May 2009 23:41 Go to previous message
Lazar Codrut-Lucian is currently offline Lazar Codrut-LucianFriend
Messages: 91
Registered: July 2009
Member
When you create a diagram, you actually create two things:
- the model (a class, a package, an actor, a use-case)
- the notational model (the position and dimensions of figures, the
colors, ...).

While the <model> has a big chance of being interchangeable between
tools, the <notational model> doesn't.

This is because the notational model may be totally different between
tools: OMG proposed the Diagram Interchance standard which is used by
some tools, while Eclipse GMF project, on which Uml2Tools is based, uses
its own Notational Model (this means different nodes in XMI files and
different classes in Java).

Even if the same notational model is used, the structure of the nodes
may be different. Some tools could save more details than others, or use
different compartment names than others. It could be that the structure
is actually well defined in Diagram Interchange, but I couldn't find
many details when I looked for them.

This means that there is little chance that you can interchange
<diagrams>, unless the tools took explicit measures to support the
interchange (it seems to me that you want to interchange <diagrams>, not
just <models>).

Lucian

Steffen Sledz wrote:
> Hi NG,
>
> we like to draw some activity, use case, and sequence diagrams in our project (for now no class diagrams or code generation). We decided to use UML2 (especially XMI as interchange format) in the hope creating the diagrams in a standardized format. Looking for a free tooling we came to Eclipse MDT-UML2Tools and later reading this group we discovered Papyrus.
>
> But both seem to be very heavy if you just want to draw some diagrams. Also in the first we miss the sequence and in the second the activity diagrams. And we found no easy way to save/load the diagrams as XMI in an easy way.
>
> Do you have some suggestion how to tackle our problem? Is Eclipse the right tool for our purposes? Where can we found helpful documentation (the one we found until now focused on modelling and class diagrams)?
>
> Thanx for some hints,
> Steffen
>
Re: Suggestion for UML2 newbie? [message #623889 is a reply to message #476484] Mon, 18 May 2009 00:02 Go to previous message
Lazar Codrut-Lucian is currently offline Lazar Codrut-LucianFriend
Messages: 91
Registered: July 2009
Member
Vlad Varnica wrote:
> Don't forget that you must decide when you start with Eclipse what to
> select:
> If you don't pay for any tool then you should contribute (e.g. bug
> report, codding, etc....) in order to help this tool to improve. If
> youbuy tools such as EclipseUML then you have the right to expect
> quality and support. Nobody will also ask you to contribute to the code
> and you can focus on your company needs.

I thought free software is simply free. Is there something in the readme
files telling otherwise?

> Let me tell you that it is too easy just come and ask for free and not
> to give anything except criticism !!

He was just asking a question. It looks like you are harassing him with
no reason.

> "Is Eclipse the right tool for our purposes?" Yes, it is if you select
> either free or non free tool approach. I mean you can't get for free
> everything. You should either contribute to the community or pay for tools.

I don't think people have to make this choice.

It is nice if people contribute to a free tool, if they have the
knowledge, time and will to do so. But it is not an obligation.

Lucian
Re: Suggestion for UML2 newbie? [message #623890 is a reply to message #476485] Mon, 18 May 2009 08:42 Go to previous message
Vlad Varnica is currently offline Vlad VarnicaFriend
Messages: 546
Registered: July 2009
Location: Milton Keynes - UK
Senior Member
Hi Lucian,

My comment below:

You say: "When you create a diagram, you actually create two things:
- the model (a class, a package, an actor, a use-case)
- the notational model (the position and dimensions of figures, the
colors, ...).While the <model> .........."

The graphical presentation is specific to each tool and only XMI is the
same. I really don't understand why you say that OMG is trying to to have
a common graphical notation. This is a non sense and a waste of time !! I
think that if we contact the OMG and explain them our Eclipse point of
view they will be pleased to accept it and add another research project
:-). The Exported XMI from small diagram models using GMF and ATL (e.g.
Papyrus, Eclipse Modeling, Topcased) or full UML Superstructure Export
(e.g. RSA) or native UML integration of UML Superstructure Model (e.g
Omondo EclipseUML) could all interchange models between between them. The
only difference is the software architecture and graphical information.
What is important is the model and not the other information. Have a look
at my article you will see that you can rebuild a diagram from an UML
Superstructure Model (e.g the metamodel). This diagram is therefore a view
of the metamodel. See my article at:
http://www.forum-omondo.com/documentation_eclipseuml_2008/ec lipseuml2008_dynamic_navigation.html#4._Navigate_inside_the_ Xerces

Saving graphical information is not appropriate and not needed anymore
because:

1. Diagrams are a view of the UML Superstructure Model and not the model
itself.
2. You can for example save all notes, comments and constraints in the UML
Superstructure and then use show hide feature to display or not this
information.
3. Why to save static position if UML is now a live navigation ? You can
use the layout feature and get a clean diagram in just few seconds. You
can also customize everything inside your diagrams.

Thanks for your post.
Re: Suggestion for UML2 newbie? [message #623891 is a reply to message #476486] Mon, 18 May 2009 09:00 Go to previous message
Vlad Varnica is currently offline Vlad VarnicaFriend
Messages: 546
Registered: July 2009
Location: Milton Keynes - UK
Senior Member
Lucian,

I think this is a moral obligation to contribute to open source or free
tool or to buy ISV tools. I fully agree that students, independent
consultants etc... could use tool for free and not to contribute. The
problem is that large corporations are using free tools just to reduce
their software investment and not to create any value !! After few years
they just move from one to another tool always looking for free. Look what
happened on the plugin market since Eclipse 3.2. Do you really think that
plugins are now better now than in 2005 ? How many plugins just
disappeared ?

Last time I was talking with a friend working for a very large corporation
in US and UK. He said to me "We are stuck because we still use Eclipse 3.2
plugins and it is impossible to upgrade now because these plugins doesn't
exist anymore".
I answered that they have never invested .....He said we didn't know how
Eclipse community was working but we made a mistake...
The result is that the Eclipse 3.2 projects has been be delivered and then
frozen. No upgrade, or new requirements, just bug fixes. This is too bad !!

If we don't respect some rules our current technology will disappear
because of lack of quality and innovation.
I fully understand you today's point of view but don't forget that I am on
this market since 2001 and I have seen and know what will happen if we
keep going that way.
Re: Suggestion for UML2 newbie? [message #623892 is a reply to message #476483] Mon, 18 May 2009 12:02 Go to previous message
Tatiana Fesenko is currently offline Tatiana FesenkoFriend
Messages: 530
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hello Steffen,

> Also in the first we miss the sequence and in the second the activity
> diagrams.
Sequence diagram is a part of UML2Tools since Galileo M4. So, it is available
in the latest stable build of UML2Tools, Galileo M7 ( http://www.eclipse.org/modeling/mdt/downloads/?project=uml2t ools&showAll=1&hlbuild=S200905080854#S200905080854).


> And we found no easy way to save/load the diagrams as XMI in
> an easy way.
I guess, you mean an algorithm described here -- http://wiki.eclipse.org/MDT-UML2Tools_FAQ#How_can_I_export_m y_UML_model_to_XMI.3F

Save/load diagrams in XMI is not very simple now, but everybody is free to
improve this functionality and contribute it to Eclipse.

> Do you have some suggestion how to tackle our problem? Is Eclipse the
> right tool for our purposes? Where can we found helpful documentation
> (the one we found until now focused on modelling and class diagrams)?
Refences to all existing documentation for UML2Tools can be found here --
http://wiki.eclipse.org/MDT-UML2Tools#Documentation . Actually, as other
open-source projects, UML2Tools has many cool features, but just some of
them are well-documented. I'll try to create a little bit more documentation
after RC1 build.

Best wishes,
Tanya.
Re: Suggestion for UML2 newbie? [message #623893 is a reply to message #476487] Mon, 18 May 2009 12:49 Go to previous message
Lazar Codrut-Lucian is currently offline Lazar Codrut-LucianFriend
Messages: 91
Registered: July 2009
Member
Vlad Varnica wrote:
> The graphical presentation is specific to each tool and only XMI is the
> same. I really don't understand why you say that OMG is trying to to
> have a common graphical notation. This is a non sense and a waste of
> time !! I think that if we contact the OMG and explain them our Eclipse
> point of view they will be pleased to accept it and add another research
> project :-).

Please take a look at this OMG standard:
Diagram Interchange, v1.0
http://www.omg.org/technology/documents/formal/diagram.htm

The existence of this standard means that OMG is trying to promote a
common graphical notation.

GMF (which also means Uml2Tools) uses its own Notation Model:
http://help.eclipse.org/help33/index.jsp?topic=/org.eclipse. gmf.doc/prog-guide/runtime/Developer%20Guide%20to%20Diagram% 20Runtime.html

As I know, OMG and Eclipse are working on bringing the standards to
common ground.

> Saving graphical information is not appropriate and not needed anymore
> because:
> 1. Diagrams are a view of the UML Superstructure Model and not the model
> itself.
> 2. You can for example save all notes, comments and constraints in the
> UML Superstructure and then use show hide feature to display or not this
> information. 3. Why to save static position if UML is now a live
> navigation ? You can use the layout feature and get a clean diagram in
> just few seconds. You can also customize everything inside your diagrams.

Some people spend time on the representation. Automatic layout is good
in general, but it might not be suitable in every situation.

Lucian
UML graphical interchange is technologically impossible [message #623894 is a reply to message #476490] Mon, 18 May 2009 13:44 Go to previous message
Vlad Varnica is currently offline Vlad VarnicaFriend
Messages: 546
Registered: July 2009
Location: Milton Keynes - UK
Senior Member
Lucian,

The OMG document you mention was published in 2006.
Who is really still working on this subject ?
Do you really think it is important ? I don't think so.
GMF is one of the best technological innovation in the last few years
regardless that it doesn't use this graphical interchange specification.

The key point is the EMF serialization of the model which makes model
interchange a reality today. Graphical information can not and will never
be possible to interchange. This is just impossible because of
technological different specifications between SWT and Swing.
This OMG specification is therefore impossible to implement today. I agree
that the idea is good but...

I also agree that automatic layout is not always suitable. We should
sometimes do it manually and this is painful.
Re: Suggestion for UML2 newbie? [message #623895 is a reply to message #476489] Mon, 18 May 2009 21:02 Go to previous message
Lars Vogel is currently offline Lars VogelFriend
Messages: 1049
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member

Hi Tatiana,

which features are not well-documented? Perhaps I can extect my tutorial
at http://www.vogella.de/articles/UML/article.html

Best regards, Lars

Tatiana Fesenko wrote:
UML2Tools has many cool features, but just
> some of them are well-documented. I'll try to create a little bit more
> documentation after RC1 build.
>
> Best wishes,
> Tanya.
>
>
Re: Suggestion for UML2 newbie? [message #623896 is a reply to message #476492] Tue, 19 May 2009 07:49 Go to previous message
Tatiana Fesenko is currently offline Tatiana FesenkoFriend
Messages: 530
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi Lars,

Basically newly implemented features need documentation. They are described
shortly at http://wiki.eclipse.org/index.php?title=MDT/UML2Tools/New_an d_Noteworthy/Galileo
..

I prioritize them in the following way:
1) Diagram synchronization is number one in my 'to document' list. It is
a really wanted feature, but there is no article on it.
2) Then go improvements in creating new diagrams process (bugs #257664, #268252,
#174315).
3) New features in working with profiles

It would be wonderful if you or somebody else from the community documented
some of these or smaller features.

Tanya.

> which features are not well-documented? Perhaps I can extect my
> tutorial at http://www.vogella.de/articles/UML/article.html
Re: Suggestion for UML2 newbie? [message #623897 is a reply to message #476483] Tue, 19 May 2009 14:09 Go to previous message
Eclipse UserFriend
Originally posted by: sledz.dresearch.de

At first thanx for all the useful hints.

Now i've just one open question: Should i use Papyrus with it's own perspective or the UML2Tools?
(Are there graphical notations compatible? e.g. can i edit a sequence diagram created with Papyrus/Ganymede later with UML2Tools/Galileo?)

Steffen

PS: I'm not only a user of free software. There are some other projects where i'm contributing to. ;-)
Re: Suggestion for UML2 newbie? [message #623899 is a reply to message #476494] Wed, 20 May 2009 17:16 Go to previous message
Lars Vogel is currently offline Lars VogelFriend
Messages: 1049
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member

As you are posting this question in the UML2Tools newsgroup I assume the
advice is a bit biosed: Use UML2Tools

Steffen Sledz wrote:
> At first thanx for all the useful hints.
>
> Now i've just one open question: Should i use Papyrus with it's own perspective or the UML2Tools?
> (Are there graphical notations compatible? e.g. can i edit a sequence diagram created with Papyrus/Ganymede later with UML2Tools/Galileo?)
>
> Steffen
>
> PS: I'm not only a user of free software. There are some other projects where i'm contributing to. ;-)
>
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