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Minimal required components for SA Help [message #472531] Thu, 17 April 2008 15:21 Go to next message
Rob Kimm is currently offline Rob KimmFriend
Messages: 8
Registered: July 2009
Junior Member
Hi -

I'm in the process of sorting out the best way to deliver Stand Alone help
for a non-Eclipse application. The content and documentation plug-ins are
being developed using DITA and the DOTA OTK.

I have a few implementation questions, if anyone's willing.

One of the requirements we have is to keep the footprint as small as
possible. Is there a definitive list of the bare minimum required plug-ins
to allow Eclipse UA to run as a stand alone system?

I'm also wondering if there's conventional wisdom on whether it's
preferable to use the platform runtime binary or RCP binary.

Finally, does anyone have recommendations on packaging the help system
(plug ins and binarys) for distribution?

Thanks!
Rob Kimm
Medtronic
Re: Minimal required components for SA Help [message #473585 is a reply to message #472531] Wed, 23 April 2008 16:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse UserFriend
Originally posted by: nospam_kowalskilee.gmail.com

Hi Rob,

What version level of Eclipse are you planning on using?
Your response will go to determining the list of the bare minimum
required plug-ins for a stand alone system. For example, the list for
Eclipse 3.4 is slightly different than the list for version 3.3, etc.

Be aware that the Eclipse help system will need a JRE to run, because it
is a Java-based app. While you can tell your users that a JRE is a
pre-requisite, some teams choose to include the JRE to make it easier
for their users and the JRE itself will increase the footprint. Of
course, if your non-Eclipse application already requires a JRE, then it
is not a special requirement for the help system per se.

My personal preference is to use the Platform binary instead of the RCP
binary, because I believe that gives me more control: I start with a
superset of everything I'd need and pare it down to the minimum. In the
past, when I started with the RCP binary, I'd have to add in jars from
the Platform binary anyway to get to the minimum needed for stand alone
help. If I was going to need something from the Platform binary anyway,
I figure to just start with that.

However, new with Eclipse 3.4, there is a Help Feature that you can add
to the RCP binary to give you what's needed to have an RCP application
plus online help. I haven't tested for whether doing it that way (RCP
binary + Help Feature) gives you more than the minimum for stand alone
help. (That is, if it brings along a bunch of stuff needed for an RCP
app that isn't needed for stand alone help).

Best regards,
Lee Anne

Rob Kimm wrote:
> Hi -
> I'm in the process of sorting out the best way to deliver Stand Alone
> help for a non-Eclipse application. The content and documentation
> plug-ins are being developed using DITA and the DOTA OTK.
> I have a few implementation questions, if anyone's willing.
>
> One of the requirements we have is to keep the footprint as small as
> possible. Is there a definitive list of the bare minimum required
> plug-ins to allow Eclipse UA to run as a stand alone system?
> I'm also wondering if there's conventional wisdom on whether it's
> preferable to use the platform runtime binary or RCP binary.
>
> Finally, does anyone have recommendations on packaging the help system
> (plug ins and binarys) for distribution?
> Thanks!
> Rob Kimm
> Medtronic
Re: Minimal required components for SA Help [message #473745 is a reply to message #472531] Mon, 12 May 2008 18:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Pierre Candela is currently offline Pierre CandelaFriend
Messages: 23
Registered: July 2009
Junior Member
Hi Rob,
for a minimal list of plugins, you can start with:
https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=197510#c8
https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=197510#c9

With Eclipse 3.3.x, the footprint is about 9.8 MB.
With Eclipse 3.4 M6, the footprint is about 10.3 MB.

I don't know whether it's THE minimal one.

Regards,
Pierre

Rob Kimm wrote:
> Hi -
> I'm in the process of sorting out the best way to deliver Stand Alone
> help for a non-Eclipse application. The content and documentation
> plug-ins are being developed using DITA and the DOTA OTK.
> I have a few implementation questions, if anyone's willing.
>
> One of the requirements we have is to keep the footprint as small as
> possible. Is there a definitive list of the bare minimum required
> plug-ins to allow Eclipse UA to run as a stand alone system?
> I'm also wondering if there's conventional wisdom on whether it's
> preferable to use the platform runtime binary or RCP binary.
>
> Finally, does anyone have recommendations on packaging the help system
> (plug ins and binarys) for distribution?
> Thanks!
> Rob Kimm
> Medtronic
Re: Minimal required components for SA Help [message #473746 is a reply to message #473585] Mon, 12 May 2008 18:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Pierre Candela is currently offline Pierre CandelaFriend
Messages: 23
Registered: July 2009
Junior Member
Lee Anne wrote:

> What version level of Eclipse are you planning on using?
> Your response will go to determining the list of the bare minimum
> required plug-ins for a stand alone system. For example, the list for
> Eclipse 3.4 is slightly different than the list for version 3.3, etc.

Hi Lee Anne,
in what way is the list different between 3.3 and 3.4?
The list we came up with for Eclipse 3.3 in Bug #197510 is still valid
for Eclipse 3.4 M6:
https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=197510

I haven't had the time to verify it against M7, though.

Regards,
Pierre
Re: Minimal required components for SA Help [message #473747 is a reply to message #473746] Wed, 14 May 2008 14:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse UserFriend
Originally posted by: nospam_kowalskilee.gmail.com

Pierre Candela wrote:
> Lee Anne wrote:
>
>> What version level of Eclipse are you planning on using?
>> Your response will go to determining the list of the bare minimum
>> required plug-ins for a stand alone system. For example, the list for
>> Eclipse 3.4 is slightly different than the list for version 3.3, etc.
>
> Hi Lee Anne,
> in what way is the list different between 3.3 and 3.4?
> The list we came up with for Eclipse 3.3 in Bug #197510 is still valid
> for Eclipse 3.4 M6:
> https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=197510
>
> I haven't had the time to verify it against M7, though.
>
> Regards,
> Pierre

Hi Pierre,

Thanks for pointing this out. I see that I misspoke ("mistyped") when I
posted that the list for Eclipse 3.4 is slightly different. When I
responded to Rob's post, while I was thinking of that same Bugzilla
entry, I mistakenly assumed that we had been talking about 3.4 at that
time also. I have had 3.4 on the brain in the intervening months. :-)

Best regards,
Lee Anne
Re: Minimal required components for SA Help [message #504914 is a reply to message #472531] Wed, 23 December 2009 14:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Alexej Spas is currently offline Alexej SpasFriend
Messages: 22
Registered: July 2009
Junior Member
Hi Rob ,

If you actively use DITA in Eclipse context, please take a look on documentation management tool called DITAworks (www.ditaworks.com)

This is an Eclipse based tool that manages documentation with single source approach using DITA standard. It provides extensive support of Eclipse help generation and handles a lot of Eclipse help single source generation issues like cross-plugin link generation control, pulling topic title on level of help contexts and s.o.

It also has set of special features for producing Eclipse help and integration with RCP application and RCP application development process. Take a look on following blog-post for more details:

Support of specific Eclipse help features in DITAworks
Step by step guide on how to support Eclipse help content under DITAworks

Also there are some screencasts available here:
http://www.ditaworks.com/state/AG:item.34.subitem.43/AC:-1.6 60216953/

Alexej
Re: Minimal required components for SA Help [message #504967 is a reply to message #504914] Wed, 23 December 2009 20:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Chris Goldthorpe is currently offline Chris GoldthorpeFriend
Messages: 815
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
I can't help noticing that almost the exact same message regarding a commercial product has been posted as a reply to five different threads. I don't think that it is appropriate to be spamming the forum by posting the same content on multiple threads and I don't want to set a precedent by letting this pass without comment.

Please cooperate in keeping the signal to noise ratio high. It would be a shame if we had to moderate incoming messages before they appeared.
Re: Minimal required components for SA Help [message #612018 is a reply to message #472531] Wed, 23 April 2008 16:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse UserFriend
Originally posted by: nospam_kowalskilee.gmail.com

Hi Rob,

What version level of Eclipse are you planning on using?
Your response will go to determining the list of the bare minimum
required plug-ins for a stand alone system. For example, the list for
Eclipse 3.4 is slightly different than the list for version 3.3, etc.

Be aware that the Eclipse help system will need a JRE to run, because it
is a Java-based app. While you can tell your users that a JRE is a
pre-requisite, some teams choose to include the JRE to make it easier
for their users and the JRE itself will increase the footprint. Of
course, if your non-Eclipse application already requires a JRE, then it
is not a special requirement for the help system per se.

My personal preference is to use the Platform binary instead of the RCP
binary, because I believe that gives me more control: I start with a
superset of everything I'd need and pare it down to the minimum. In the
past, when I started with the RCP binary, I'd have to add in jars from
the Platform binary anyway to get to the minimum needed for stand alone
help. If I was going to need something from the Platform binary anyway,
I figure to just start with that.

However, new with Eclipse 3.4, there is a Help Feature that you can add
to the RCP binary to give you what's needed to have an RCP application
plus online help. I haven't tested for whether doing it that way (RCP
binary + Help Feature) gives you more than the minimum for stand alone
help. (That is, if it brings along a bunch of stuff needed for an RCP
app that isn't needed for stand alone help).

Best regards,
Lee Anne

Rob Kimm wrote:
> Hi -
> I'm in the process of sorting out the best way to deliver Stand Alone
> help for a non-Eclipse application. The content and documentation
> plug-ins are being developed using DITA and the DOTA OTK.
> I have a few implementation questions, if anyone's willing.
>
> One of the requirements we have is to keep the footprint as small as
> possible. Is there a definitive list of the bare minimum required
> plug-ins to allow Eclipse UA to run as a stand alone system?
> I'm also wondering if there's conventional wisdom on whether it's
> preferable to use the platform runtime binary or RCP binary.
>
> Finally, does anyone have recommendations on packaging the help system
> (plug ins and binarys) for distribution?
> Thanks!
> Rob Kimm
> Medtronic
Re: Minimal required components for SA Help [message #614210 is a reply to message #472531] Mon, 12 May 2008 18:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Pierre Candela is currently offline Pierre CandelaFriend
Messages: 23
Registered: July 2009
Junior Member
Hi Rob,
for a minimal list of plugins, you can start with:
https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=197510#c8
https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=197510#c9

With Eclipse 3.3.x, the footprint is about 9.8 MB.
With Eclipse 3.4 M6, the footprint is about 10.3 MB.

I don't know whether it's THE minimal one.

Regards,
Pierre

Rob Kimm wrote:
> Hi -
> I'm in the process of sorting out the best way to deliver Stand Alone
> help for a non-Eclipse application. The content and documentation
> plug-ins are being developed using DITA and the DOTA OTK.
> I have a few implementation questions, if anyone's willing.
>
> One of the requirements we have is to keep the footprint as small as
> possible. Is there a definitive list of the bare minimum required
> plug-ins to allow Eclipse UA to run as a stand alone system?
> I'm also wondering if there's conventional wisdom on whether it's
> preferable to use the platform runtime binary or RCP binary.
>
> Finally, does anyone have recommendations on packaging the help system
> (plug ins and binarys) for distribution?
> Thanks!
> Rob Kimm
> Medtronic
Re: Minimal required components for SA Help [message #614215 is a reply to message #473585] Mon, 12 May 2008 18:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Pierre Candela is currently offline Pierre CandelaFriend
Messages: 23
Registered: July 2009
Junior Member
Lee Anne wrote:

> What version level of Eclipse are you planning on using?
> Your response will go to determining the list of the bare minimum
> required plug-ins for a stand alone system. For example, the list for
> Eclipse 3.4 is slightly different than the list for version 3.3, etc.

Hi Lee Anne,
in what way is the list different between 3.3 and 3.4?
The list we came up with for Eclipse 3.3 in Bug #197510 is still valid
for Eclipse 3.4 M6:
https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=197510

I haven't had the time to verify it against M7, though.

Regards,
Pierre
Re: Minimal required components for SA Help [message #614220 is a reply to message #473746] Wed, 14 May 2008 14:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse UserFriend
Originally posted by: nospam_kowalskilee.gmail.com

Pierre Candela wrote:
> Lee Anne wrote:
>
>> What version level of Eclipse are you planning on using?
>> Your response will go to determining the list of the bare minimum
>> required plug-ins for a stand alone system. For example, the list for
>> Eclipse 3.4 is slightly different than the list for version 3.3, etc.
>
> Hi Lee Anne,
> in what way is the list different between 3.3 and 3.4?
> The list we came up with for Eclipse 3.3 in Bug #197510 is still valid
> for Eclipse 3.4 M6:
> https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=197510
>
> I haven't had the time to verify it against M7, though.
>
> Regards,
> Pierre

Hi Pierre,

Thanks for pointing this out. I see that I misspoke ("mistyped") when I
posted that the list for Eclipse 3.4 is slightly different. When I
responded to Rob's post, while I was thinking of that same Bugzilla
entry, I mistakenly assumed that we had been talking about 3.4 at that
time also. I have had 3.4 on the brain in the intervening months. :-)

Best regards,
Lee Anne
Re: Minimal required components for SA Help [message #623814 is a reply to message #472531] Wed, 23 December 2009 14:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Alexej Spas is currently offline Alexej SpasFriend
Messages: 22
Registered: July 2009
Junior Member
Hi Rob ,

If you actively use DITA in Eclipse context, please take a look on http://www.ditaworks.com/ called DITAworks (http://www.ditaworks.com/)

This is an Eclipse based tool that manages documentation with single source approach using DITA standard. It provides extensive support of Eclipse help generation and handles a lot of Eclipse help single source generation issues like cross-plugin link generation control, pulling topic title on level of help contexts and s.o.

It also has set of special features for producing Eclipse help and integration with RCP application and RCP application development process. Take a look on following blog-post for more details:

http://support.ditaworks.com/features/using-dita-for-publish ing-documentation-in-eclipse-help-format-functionality-previ ew/
http://support.ditaworks.com/features/eclipse-help-support-w ith-ditaworks/

Also there are some screencasts available here:
http://www.ditaworks.com/state/AG:item.34.subitem.43/AC:-1.6 60216953/

Alexej
Re: Minimal required components for SA Help [message #623816 is a reply to message #504914] Wed, 23 December 2009 20:36 Go to previous message
Chris Goldthorpe is currently offline Chris GoldthorpeFriend
Messages: 815
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
I can't help noticing that almost the exact same message regarding a commercial product has been posted as a reply to five different threads. I don't think that it is appropriate to be spamming the forum by posting the same content on multiple threads and I don't want to set a precedent by letting this pass without comment.

Please cooperate in keeping the signal to noise ratio high. It would be a shame if we had to moderate incoming messages before they appeared.
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