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SwordFish for Dynamic Dependency [message #468775] Wed, 10 June 2009 15:22 Go to next message
Rajesh is currently offline RajeshFriend
Messages: 2
Registered: July 2009
Junior Member
Hi

I have discovered this project "Swordfish" after doing some research on
internet on Dynamic Service Dependency --- after multiple internet hops
from different projects.

My questions are related to service dependency mapping and monitoring.

- Can I use Swordfish (Service Registry?) to query in runtime the dynamic
dependencies between services?

- What kind of information can I get in Runtime (Events related to usage,
performance) from Swordfish

- Can this information be ported out in a simple RSS/XML Feed?

My customers are looking at identifying dynamic dependency between various
services in Runtime, in a large outsource environment, it is difficult to
know what service is dependent on what other services.

Next, they would like to know the performance and availability of these
services in Runtime, which I believe is out of scope for Swordfish?


I am reading from the various docs, that Swordfish might require process
orchestration (BPEL), Is that mandatory to achieve the above two use
cases. Quite frankly, most of the customers are not sophisticated to
adopt BPEL and hence we would like some practical and basic tooling


regards
Raj.
Re: SwordFish for Dynamic Dependency [message #490894 is a reply to message #468775] Mon, 12 October 2009 09:51 Go to previous message
Gerald Preissler is currently offline Gerald PreisslerFriend
Messages: 8
Registered: July 2009
Junior Member
Rajesh,

sorry for the extremly late reply - we concentrated on the developer's mailing list and kind of forgot to monitor the forum.

Regarding your questions:

> - Can I use Swordfish (Service Registry?) to query in runtime the
> dynamic dependencies between services?

Currently the Swordfish registry acts as a kind of yellow pages for services and service providers. The consumer only needs to know the logical name of the service it wants to call. Using the registry-based service resolution plugin, Swordfish can identify a suitable provider for this service at runtime and dynamically route the request to this provider. This functionality will be extended with a extensible, policy-based lookup mechanism. This will enable the framework to assign providers to consumers according to their respective non-functional requirements and capabilities. If you are interested in how this works, please check out the documentation for the product that basically kick-started Swordfish at http://www.sopera.de/en/downloads/sopera-asf-32/ . We're currently working on migrating the relevant functionality from this product to swordfish.

> - What kind of information can I get in Runtime (Events related
> to usage, performance) from Swordfish

Please see my relpy to Matthew Cooper in a parallel thread on this forum for this.

> - Can this information be ported out in a simple RSS/XML Feed?

With Swordfish: not yet, and we're still missing some infrastructure to support this. With Sopera: not yet, either Wink, but it would be relatively easy to add this functionality to an existing component in the infrastructure.

> My customers are looking at identifying dynamic dependency
> between various services in Runtime, in a large outsource
> environment, it is difficult to know what service is dependent
> on what other services.

I know what you're referring to. Currently our registry is not set up to manage service dependency information, but we're thinking about a repository project that would handle this information (and other governance-related functionality as well). This of course would still require the manual administration of this information. There are some thoughts on how this could be supported by automated mechanisms, but no project yet to implement anything in that direction.

> Next, they would like to know the performance and availability
> of these services in Runtime, which I believe is out of scope
> for Swordfish?

Here we're also working on migrating the functionality from Sopera ASF. You can find more information in the Management Guide which is part of the documentation that I mentioned above.

> I am reading from the various docs, that Swordfish might
> require process orchestration (BPEL), Is that mandatory to
> achieve the above two use cases. Quite frankly, most of the
> customers are not sophisticated to adopt BPEL and hence
> we would like some practical and basic tooling

Not at all! The premier use case for Swordfish is the implementation of service consumers and providers, currently using JAX-WS, with more options to come. If you look at the tutorials that are provided with the Swordfish download, you will find examples for this. BPEL support builds on top of that and is strictly optional. Thanks for pointing out that our online documentation might be understood in a way that BPEL is mandatory, this certainly was not intended.

We're certainly interested to hear more about your requirements and use cases. If there is anything you could share with us, please post it here (I promise to check this forum more often), in the dev list or via direct mail (gerald dot preissler at sopera dot de).
Re: SwordFish for Dynamic Dependency [message #577323 is a reply to message #468775] Mon, 12 October 2009 09:51 Go to previous message
Gerald Preissler is currently offline Gerald PreisslerFriend
Messages: 8
Registered: July 2009
Junior Member
Rajesh,

sorry for the extremly late reply - we concentrated on the developer's mailing list and kind of forgot to monitor the forum.

Regarding your questions:

> - Can I use Swordfish (Service Registry?) to query in runtime the
> dynamic dependencies between services?

Currently the Swordfish registry acts as a kind of yellow pages for services and service providers. The consumer only needs to know the logical name of the service it wants to call. Using the registry-based service resolution plugin, Swordfish can identify a suitable provider for this service at runtime and dynamically route the request to this provider. This functionality will be extended with a extensible, policy-based lookup mechanism. This will enable the framework to assign providers to consumers according to their respective non-functional requirements and capabilities. If you are interested in how this works, please check out the documentation for the product that basically kick-started Swordfish at http://www.sopera.de/en/downloads/sopera-asf-32/ . We're currently working on migrating the relevant functionality from this product to swordfish.

> - What kind of information can I get in Runtime (Events related
> to usage, performance) from Swordfish

Please see my relpy to Matthew Cooper in a parallel thread on this forum for this.

> - Can this information be ported out in a simple RSS/XML Feed?

With Swordfish: not yet, and we're still missing some infrastructure to support this. With Sopera: not yet, either ;), but it would be relatively easy to add this functionality to an existing component in the infrastructure.

> My customers are looking at identifying dynamic dependency
> between various services in Runtime, in a large outsource
> environment, it is difficult to know what service is dependent
> on what other services.

I know what you're referring to. Currently our registry is not set up to manage service dependency information, but we're thinking about a repository project that would handle this information (and other governance-related functionality as well). This of course would still require the manual administration of this information. There are some thoughts on how this could be supported by automated mechanisms, but no project yet to implement anything in that direction.

> Next, they would like to know the performance and availability
> of these services in Runtime, which I believe is out of scope
> for Swordfish?

Here we're also working on migrating the functionality from Sopera ASF. You can find more information in the Management Guide which is part of the documentation that I mentioned above.

> I am reading from the various docs, that Swordfish might
> require process orchestration (BPEL), Is that mandatory to
> achieve the above two use cases. Quite frankly, most of the
> customers are not sophisticated to adopt BPEL and hence
> we would like some practical and basic tooling

Not at all! The premier use case for Swordfish is the implementation of service consumers and providers, currently using JAX-WS, with more options to come. If you look at the tutorials that are provided with the Swordfish download, you will find examples for this. BPEL support builds on top of that and is strictly optional. Thanks for pointing out that our online documentation might be understood in a way that BPEL is mandatory, this certainly was not intended.

We're certainly interested to hear more about your requirements and use cases. If there is anything you could share with us, please post it here (I promise to check this forum more often), in the dev list or via direct mail (gerald dot preissler at sopera dot de).
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