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Grpahical Programming [message #4081] Wed, 03 August 2005 13:50 Go to next message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: user.domain.invalid

Hi All,

My name is Alan Parkinson and I am director of AGP Micro Ltd, after
posting AGP micros interest in DSDP a months or two ago I had a
conversation with Doug Gaff on 22nd July about AGP Micro and DSDP. AGP
Micro is currently interested in graphical programming for embedded
systems, and we are interested in how Eclipse can be improved from the
point of view of graphical programming, especially for embedded systems.
Re: Graphical Programming [message #4157 is a reply to message #4081] Wed, 03 August 2005 14:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: alan.agpmicro.co.uk

Sorry about the incomplete post, I had an issue with my mail client.

My name is Alan Parkinson and I am director of AGP Micro Ltd, after
posting AGP micros interest in DSDP a months or two ago I had a
conversation with Doug Gaff on 22nd July about AGP Micro and DSDP. AGP
Micro is currently interested in graphical programming for embedded
systems, and we are interested in how Eclipse can be improved from the
point of view of graphical programming, especially for embedded systems.

Following Doug's advice from our conversation I'm inquiring about any
other companies interested in graphical programming, and the possibility
of forming a sub project around this topic. This could be extending the
work on EMF because of the close relationship of EMF and GEF.

Any ideas and thoughts on graphical programming for embedded systems are
welcome :-)

Alan
Re: Graphical Programming [message #4227 is a reply to message #4157] Wed, 03 August 2005 14:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: dschaefer.rogers.com

Alan Parkinson wrote:
> Sorry about the incomplete post, I had an issue with my mail client.
>
> My name is Alan Parkinson and I am director of AGP Micro Ltd, after
> posting AGP micros interest in DSDP a months or two ago I had a
> conversation with Doug Gaff on 22nd July about AGP Micro and DSDP. AGP
> Micro is currently interested in graphical programming for embedded
> systems, and we are interested in how Eclipse can be improved from the
> point of view of graphical programming, especially for embedded systems.
>
> Following Doug's advice from our conversation I'm inquiring about any
> other companies interested in graphical programming, and the possibility
> of forming a sub project around this topic. This could be extending the
> work on EMF because of the close relationship of EMF and GEF.
>
> Any ideas and thoughts on graphical programming for embedded systems are
> welcome :-)

Interesting idea Alan. One possible thing that could help in this effort
is the GMF project which looks to build the bridge between EMF and GEF.
It should be able to provide the framework for building graphical domain
specific languages.

I guess I'd be interested in hearing more detail on what kind of
graphical programming you and others are interested in. I assume that
you would want to start with more general programming in order to build
up a multi-vendor community for this. Or were you thinking of more a
framework like GMF promises to provide that vendors can build their
proprietary languages with.

Interesting topic. Thanks for this.
--
Doug Schaefer, Senior Software Developer
IBM Rational Software, Ottawa Lab
Kanata, Ontario, Canada
Re: Graphical Programming [message #4297 is a reply to message #4227] Wed, 03 August 2005 19:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: alan.agpmicro.co.uk

Doug Schaefer wrote:

> Interesting idea Alan. One possible thing that could help in this effort
> is the GMF project which looks to build the bridge between EMF and GEF.
> It should be able to provide the framework for building graphical domain
> specific languages.

GEF certainly provides a very good gui for EMF, there is lots
documentation and examples for using them together.


> I guess I'd be interested in hearing more detail on what kind of
> graphical programming you and others are interested in.

One recent idea we had for graphical programming was debugging models
with debug information from target devices.


> I assume that you would want to start with more general programming
> in order to build up a multi-vendor community for this. Or were you thinking of more
> a framework like GMF promises to provide that vendors can build their
> proprietary languages with.
>

Think EMF provides a good multi-vendor base, with its support of XMI
allowing loading of UML files but also it allows vendors to use there
own formats. With GEF, EMF, JET and JMerge you can build a graphical
programming tool for Java, I believe some UML tools already use these tools.

So it could be the case of how we extend these base tools for building
tools targeted for embedded targets?
Re: Graphical Programming [message #4448 is a reply to message #4297] Thu, 04 August 2005 10:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Martin Oberhuber is currently offline Martin Oberhuber
Messages: 982
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
> One recent idea we had for graphical programming was debugging models
> with debug information from target devices.

What do you mean by that?
Do you think about graphically visualizing data structures
like the DDD debugger does?

Thanks,
Martin
--
Martin Oberhuber - WindRiver, Austria
+43(662)457915-85
Re: Graphical Programming [message #4587 is a reply to message #4448] Thu, 04 August 2005 14:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: alan.agpmicro.co.uk

Martin Oberhuber wrote:
>
> > One recent idea we had for graphical programming was debugging models
> > with debug information from target devices.
>
> What do you mean by that?
> Do you think about graphically visualizing data structures
> like the DDD debugger does?
>

I was thinking of capturing target state information by contributing
break points and populating the graphical model with his information.
This could allow developers to set break points in there designs and
then step through them, debuging with debug data from the target.

Thanks,
Alan Parkinson
Re: Graphical Programming [message #4657 is a reply to message #4587] Thu, 04 August 2005 15:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: dschaefer.rogers.com

Alan Parkinson wrote:
> Martin Oberhuber wrote:
>
>>
>> > One recent idea we had for graphical programming was debugging models
>> > with debug information from target devices.
>>
>> What do you mean by that?
>> Do you think about graphically visualizing data structures
>> like the DDD debugger does?
>>
>
> I was thinking of capturing target state information by contributing
> break points and populating the graphical model with his information.
> This could allow developers to set break points in there designs and
> then step through them, debuging with debug data from the target.
>
> Thanks,
> Alan Parkinson

That would be cool. That is different from what I was thinking of with
graphical programming. But then I'm an old codegen guy :)

--
Doug Schaefer, Senior Software Developer
IBM Rational Software, Ottawa Lab
Kanata, Ontario, Canada
Re: Graphical Programming [message #4726 is a reply to message #4657] Fri, 05 August 2005 07:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: alan.agpmicro.co.uk

Doug Schaefer wrote:
> Alan Parkinson wrote:
>
>> Martin Oberhuber wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> > One recent idea we had for graphical programming was debugging models
>>> > with debug information from target devices.
>>>
>>> What do you mean by that?
>>> Do you think about graphically visualizing data structures
>>> like the DDD debugger does?
>>>
>>
>> I was thinking of capturing target state information by contributing
>> break points and populating the graphical model with his information.
>> This could allow developers to set break points in there designs and
>> then step through them, debuging with debug data from the target.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Alan Parkinson
>
>
> That would be cool. That is different from what I was thinking of with
> graphical programming. But then I'm an old codegen guy :)
>

What is everyones idea of graphical programming?

I see it as tools allowing to solve a problem using a graphical
interface to manipulate and design models, and then generate code from
these models.

Some tools take this further and add reverse engineering capabilities.

--
Alan Parkinson
--
Regards

Alan Parkinson

Managing Director

AGP Micro LTD
UWE Innovate
The Rackhay
Queen Charlotte Street
Bristol, BS1 4HJ

Tel: +44 (0) 117 3285904
Fax: +44 (0) 117 3285901

AGP Micro LTD registered in England and Wales
Registration number: 05431716
Registered Office: 4 THE COURTYARD, WOODLANDS, BRADLEY STOKE, BRISTOL,
BS32 4NB

*** This E-mail contains confidential information for the addressee
only. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us
immediately. You should not use, disclose, distribute or copy this
communication if received in error. No binding contract will result from
this e-mail until such time as a written document is signed on behalf of
the company. AGP micro cannot accept responsibility for the completeness
or accuracy of this message as it has been transmitted over public
networks.***
Re: Graphical Programming [message #7791 is a reply to message #4726] Fri, 18 November 2005 09:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Doug Gaff is currently offline Doug Gaff
Messages: 150
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi Alan,

This thread seems to have stalled with your question. Is there some
value in you doing a demo of your commercial product to DSDP and CDT
folks? Perhaps that will start the conversation back up.

Doug G


"Alan Parkinson" <alan@agpmicro.co.uk> wrote in message
news:dcvk8l$vja$1@news.eclipse.org:

> Doug Schaefer wrote:
>
> > Alan Parkinson wrote:
> >
>
> >> Martin Oberhuber wrote:
> >>
>
> >>>
>
> >>> > One recent idea we had for graphical programming was debugging
> models
> >>> > with debug information from target devices.
> >>>
>
> >>> What do you mean by that?
> >>> Do you think about graphically visualizing data structures
> >>> like the DDD debugger does?
> >>>
> >>
>
> >> I was thinking of capturing target state information by contributing
> >> break points and populating the graphical model with his information.
> >> This could allow developers to set break points in there designs and
> >> then step through them, debuging with debug data from the target.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Alan Parkinson
> >
> >
>
> > That would be cool. That is different from what I was thinking of with
> > graphical programming. But then I'm an old codegen guy :)
> >
>
>
> What is everyones idea of graphical programming?
>
> I see it as tools allowing to solve a problem using a graphical
> interface to manipulate and design models, and then generate code from
> these models.
>
> Some tools take this further and add reverse engineering capabilities.
>
> --
> Alan Parkinson
> --
> Regards
>
> Alan Parkinson
>
> Managing Director
>
> AGP Micro LTD
> UWE Innovate
> The Rackhay
> Queen Charlotte Street
> Bristol, BS1 4HJ
>
> Tel: +44 (0) 117 3285904
> Fax: +44 (0) 117 3285901
>
> AGP Micro LTD registered in England and Wales
> Registration number: 05431716
> Registered Office: 4 THE COURTYARD, WOODLANDS, BRADLEY STOKE, BRISTOL,
> BS32 4NB
>
> *** This E-mail contains confidential information for the addressee
> only. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us
> immediately. You should not use, disclose, distribute or copy this
> communication if received in error. No binding contract will result from
> this e-mail until such time as a written document is signed on behalf of
> the company. AGP micro cannot accept responsibility for the completeness
> or accuracy of this message as it has been transmitted over public
> networks.***
Re: Graphical Programming [message #7859 is a reply to message #4157] Mon, 13 February 2006 13:43 Go to previous message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: john.connectivelogic.co.uk

Thought CLiP might be of interest

www.connectivelogic.co.uk

John
Re: Graphical Programming [message #567730 is a reply to message #4081] Wed, 03 August 2005 14:04 Go to previous message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: alan.agpmicro.co.uk

Sorry about the incomplete post, I had an issue with my mail client.

My name is Alan Parkinson and I am director of AGP Micro Ltd, after
posting AGP micros interest in DSDP a months or two ago I had a
conversation with Doug Gaff on 22nd July about AGP Micro and DSDP. AGP
Micro is currently interested in graphical programming for embedded
systems, and we are interested in how Eclipse can be improved from the
point of view of graphical programming, especially for embedded systems.

Following Doug's advice from our conversation I'm inquiring about any
other companies interested in graphical programming, and the possibility
of forming a sub project around this topic. This could be extending the
work on EMF because of the close relationship of EMF and GEF.

Any ideas and thoughts on graphical programming for embedded systems are
welcome :-)

Alan
Re: Graphical Programming [message #567762 is a reply to message #4157] Wed, 03 August 2005 14:57 Go to previous message
Doug Schaefer is currently offline Doug Schaefer
Messages: 68
Registered: July 2009
Member
Alan Parkinson wrote:
> Sorry about the incomplete post, I had an issue with my mail client.
>
> My name is Alan Parkinson and I am director of AGP Micro Ltd, after
> posting AGP micros interest in DSDP a months or two ago I had a
> conversation with Doug Gaff on 22nd July about AGP Micro and DSDP. AGP
> Micro is currently interested in graphical programming for embedded
> systems, and we are interested in how Eclipse can be improved from the
> point of view of graphical programming, especially for embedded systems.
>
> Following Doug's advice from our conversation I'm inquiring about any
> other companies interested in graphical programming, and the possibility
> of forming a sub project around this topic. This could be extending the
> work on EMF because of the close relationship of EMF and GEF.
>
> Any ideas and thoughts on graphical programming for embedded systems are
> welcome :-)

Interesting idea Alan. One possible thing that could help in this effort
is the GMF project which looks to build the bridge between EMF and GEF.
It should be able to provide the framework for building graphical domain
specific languages.

I guess I'd be interested in hearing more detail on what kind of
graphical programming you and others are interested in. I assume that
you would want to start with more general programming in order to build
up a multi-vendor community for this. Or were you thinking of more a
framework like GMF promises to provide that vendors can build their
proprietary languages with.

Interesting topic. Thanks for this.
--
Doug Schaefer, Senior Software Developer
IBM Rational Software, Ottawa Lab
Kanata, Ontario, Canada
Re: Graphical Programming [message #567803 is a reply to message #4227] Wed, 03 August 2005 19:19 Go to previous message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: alan.agpmicro.co.uk

Doug Schaefer wrote:

> Interesting idea Alan. One possible thing that could help in this effort
> is the GMF project which looks to build the bridge between EMF and GEF.
> It should be able to provide the framework for building graphical domain
> specific languages.

GEF certainly provides a very good gui for EMF, there is lots
documentation and examples for using them together.


> I guess I'd be interested in hearing more detail on what kind of
> graphical programming you and others are interested in.

One recent idea we had for graphical programming was debugging models
with debug information from target devices.


> I assume that you would want to start with more general programming
> in order to build up a multi-vendor community for this. Or were you thinking of more
> a framework like GMF promises to provide that vendors can build their
> proprietary languages with.
>

Think EMF provides a good multi-vendor base, with its support of XMI
allowing loading of UML files but also it allows vendors to use there
own formats. With GEF, EMF, JET and JMerge you can build a graphical
programming tool for Java, I believe some UML tools already use these tools.

So it could be the case of how we extend these base tools for building
tools targeted for embedded targets?
Re: Graphical Programming [message #567866 is a reply to message #4297] Thu, 04 August 2005 10:33 Go to previous message
Martin Oberhuber is currently offline Martin Oberhuber
Messages: 982
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
> One recent idea we had for graphical programming was debugging models
> with debug information from target devices.

What do you mean by that?
Do you think about graphically visualizing data structures
like the DDD debugger does?

Thanks,
Martin
--
Martin Oberhuber - WindRiver, Austria
+43(662)457915-85
Re: Graphical Programming [message #567939 is a reply to message #4448] Thu, 04 August 2005 14:53 Go to previous message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: alan.agpmicro.co.uk

Martin Oberhuber wrote:
>
> > One recent idea we had for graphical programming was debugging models
> > with debug information from target devices.
>
> What do you mean by that?
> Do you think about graphically visualizing data structures
> like the DDD debugger does?
>

I was thinking of capturing target state information by contributing
break points and populating the graphical model with his information.
This could allow developers to set break points in there designs and
then step through them, debuging with debug data from the target.

Thanks,
Alan Parkinson
Re: Graphical Programming [message #567966 is a reply to message #4587] Thu, 04 August 2005 15:15 Go to previous message
Doug Schaefer is currently offline Doug Schaefer
Messages: 68
Registered: July 2009
Member
Alan Parkinson wrote:
> Martin Oberhuber wrote:
>
>>
>> > One recent idea we had for graphical programming was debugging models
>> > with debug information from target devices.
>>
>> What do you mean by that?
>> Do you think about graphically visualizing data structures
>> like the DDD debugger does?
>>
>
> I was thinking of capturing target state information by contributing
> break points and populating the graphical model with his information.
> This could allow developers to set break points in there designs and
> then step through them, debuging with debug data from the target.
>
> Thanks,
> Alan Parkinson

That would be cool. That is different from what I was thinking of with
graphical programming. But then I'm an old codegen guy :)

--
Doug Schaefer, Senior Software Developer
IBM Rational Software, Ottawa Lab
Kanata, Ontario, Canada
Re: Graphical Programming [message #568002 is a reply to message #4657] Fri, 05 August 2005 07:57 Go to previous message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: alan.agpmicro.co.uk

Doug Schaefer wrote:
> Alan Parkinson wrote:
>
>> Martin Oberhuber wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> > One recent idea we had for graphical programming was debugging models
>>> > with debug information from target devices.
>>>
>>> What do you mean by that?
>>> Do you think about graphically visualizing data structures
>>> like the DDD debugger does?
>>>
>>
>> I was thinking of capturing target state information by contributing
>> break points and populating the graphical model with his information.
>> This could allow developers to set break points in there designs and
>> then step through them, debuging with debug data from the target.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Alan Parkinson
>
>
> That would be cool. That is different from what I was thinking of with
> graphical programming. But then I'm an old codegen guy :)
>

What is everyones idea of graphical programming?

I see it as tools allowing to solve a problem using a graphical
interface to manipulate and design models, and then generate code from
these models.

Some tools take this further and add reverse engineering capabilities.

--
Alan Parkinson
--
Regards

Alan Parkinson

Managing Director

AGP Micro LTD
UWE Innovate
The Rackhay
Queen Charlotte Street
Bristol, BS1 4HJ

Tel: +44 (0) 117 3285904
Fax: +44 (0) 117 3285901

AGP Micro LTD registered in England and Wales
Registration number: 05431716
Registered Office: 4 THE COURTYARD, WOODLANDS, BRADLEY STOKE, BRISTOL,
BS32 4NB

*** This E-mail contains confidential information for the addressee
only. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us
immediately. You should not use, disclose, distribute or copy this
communication if received in error. No binding contract will result from
this e-mail until such time as a written document is signed on behalf of
the company. AGP micro cannot accept responsibility for the completeness
or accuracy of this message as it has been transmitted over public
networks.***
Re: Graphical Programming [message #569288 is a reply to message #4726] Fri, 18 November 2005 09:33 Go to previous message
Doug Gaff is currently offline Doug Gaff
Messages: 150
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi Alan,

This thread seems to have stalled with your question. Is there some
value in you doing a demo of your commercial product to DSDP and CDT
folks? Perhaps that will start the conversation back up.

Doug G


"Alan Parkinson" <alan@agpmicro.co.uk> wrote in message
news:dcvk8l$vja$1@news.eclipse.org:

> Doug Schaefer wrote:
>
> > Alan Parkinson wrote:
> >
>
> >> Martin Oberhuber wrote:
> >>
>
> >>>
>
> >>> > One recent idea we had for graphical programming was debugging
> models
> >>> > with debug information from target devices.
> >>>
>
> >>> What do you mean by that?
> >>> Do you think about graphically visualizing data structures
> >>> like the DDD debugger does?
> >>>
> >>
>
> >> I was thinking of capturing target state information by contributing
> >> break points and populating the graphical model with his information.
> >> This could allow developers to set break points in there designs and
> >> then step through them, debuging with debug data from the target.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Alan Parkinson
> >
> >
>
> > That would be cool. That is different from what I was thinking of with
> > graphical programming. But then I'm an old codegen guy :)
> >
>
>
> What is everyones idea of graphical programming?
>
> I see it as tools allowing to solve a problem using a graphical
> interface to manipulate and design models, and then generate code from
> these models.
>
> Some tools take this further and add reverse engineering capabilities.
>
> --
> Alan Parkinson
> --
> Regards
>
> Alan Parkinson
>
> Managing Director
>
> AGP Micro LTD
> UWE Innovate
> The Rackhay
> Queen Charlotte Street
> Bristol, BS1 4HJ
>
> Tel: +44 (0) 117 3285904
> Fax: +44 (0) 117 3285901
>
> AGP Micro LTD registered in England and Wales
> Registration number: 05431716
> Registered Office: 4 THE COURTYARD, WOODLANDS, BRADLEY STOKE, BRISTOL,
> BS32 4NB
>
> *** This E-mail contains confidential information for the addressee
> only. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us
> immediately. You should not use, disclose, distribute or copy this
> communication if received in error. No binding contract will result from
> this e-mail until such time as a written document is signed on behalf of
> the company. AGP micro cannot accept responsibility for the completeness
> or accuracy of this message as it has been transmitted over public
> networks.***
Re: Graphical Programming [message #569433 is a reply to message #4157] Mon, 13 February 2006 13:43 Go to previous message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: john.connectivelogic.co.uk

Thought CLiP might be of interest

www.connectivelogic.co.uk

John
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