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DSLs, language models and parsers [message #375866] Sun, 15 January 2006 14:41 Go to next message
Francisco  Gortázar is currently offline Francisco Gortázar
Messages: 20
Registered: July 2009
Location: Spain
Junior Member
Hi,

We have been aware of your proposal, and we wonder whether our work
would fit into the scope of the project. Our work is concerned with DSLs
and language models, specially those DLSs which are intended to have
textual notation. From a language model of the DSL annotated with some
syntactic information a parser is automatically generated.

Giving that we are concerned with the definition of models and textual
notations, and that textual notation for models is within the scope of
the project, we think our approach could be of benefit for the project.

What do you think?

Regards,

Patxi Gortázar


Re: DSLs, language models and parsers [message #375867 is a reply to message #375866] Sun, 15 January 2006 23:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Frederic Plante is currently offline Frederic Plante
Messages: 4
Registered: July 2009
Junior Member
Hi Patxi,

Thanks for your interest for the modeling project!

If I understand your approach properly and do not attempt to read too much
between the lines, it seems your work could fall within the scope of the
modeling project, but would require some realignment.

As is, the approach is making use of a model describing a textual notation
to generate code that fulfills a task unrelated to modeling; parsing the
textual notation. This is an application of two modeling technologies:
modeling and transformation. This is out of scope since we are looking for
tooling/framework to support modeling activities, as opposed to their
application.

However, an in-scope alternative could be the creation of some tooling that
would take as input a domain meta-model and a textual notation model. It
would generate a text editor capable of editing instances of the meta-model
using the textual notation. This is more-or-less a textual notation version
of the Graphical Modeling Framework (GMF) project.

I hope this clarifies.

- Fred



"Francisco Gort
Re: DSLs, language models and parsers [message #375871 is a reply to message #375867] Sun, 05 February 2006 20:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: constantine.plotnikov.gmail.com

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------000804050500080800070000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Frederic Plante wrote:
>
> However, an in-scope alternative could be the creation of some tooling that
> would take as input a domain meta-model and a textual notation model. It
> would generate a text editor capable of editing instances of the meta-model
> using the textual notation. This is more-or-less a textual notation version
> of the Graphical Modeling Framework (GMF) project.
>
I
Re: DSLs, language models and parsers [message #375873 is a reply to message #375871] Sun, 05 February 2006 22:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Artem Tikhomirov is currently offline Artem Tikhomirov
Messages: 222
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Oh, there seems to be a lot of interest in the area of DSL textual
notation. Would be great to get all interested parties at EclipseCon (e.g.
at the next short talk:
http://canuck.gda.itesm.mx/eclipsezilla/show_bug.cgi?id=438) to discuss
approaches or even join efforts :)

Best wishes,
Artem Tikhomirov

"Constantie Plotnikov" <constantine.plotnikov@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ds5m5n$c33$1@utils.eclipse.org...
Frederic Plante wrote:
>
> However, an in-scope alternative could be the creation of some tooling
> that
> would take as input a domain meta-model and a textual notation model. It
> would generate a text editor capable of editing instances of the
> meta-model
> using the textual notation. This is more-or-less a textual notation
> version
> of the Graphical Modeling Framework (GMF) project.
>
I
Re: DSLs, language models and parsers [message #375875 is a reply to message #375873] Mon, 06 February 2006 06:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: constantine.plotnikov.gmail.com

I guess it is just a time for DSL toolkits to hatch out. I generally
very fond of idea of discussing approaches and joining efforts.

However it is very unlikely that I will manage to get to EclipseCON this
year due to a number of different reasons, but I will check this again.

So is it possible for discussion to happen on this group for a while? I
would like see some details on your approach.
What I'm interested are:

- samples of textual notation (including complex cases
like expressions);

- textual notation definition details;

- some architectual principles like extensibility model
(reusable language modules and creating new languages
that modify some language just a bit).

And I'm ready answer questions about my approach. I have tried to answer
some questions in documents and samples in the package. But I'm sure
that that you will have different questions. Also the questions will
give me focus for the next documentation update in the package.

Constantine

Artem Tikhomirov wrote:
> Oh, there seems to be a lot of interest in the area of DSL textual
> notation. Would be great to get all interested parties at EclipseCon (e.g.
> at the next short talk:
> http://canuck.gda.itesm.mx/eclipsezilla/show_bug.cgi?id=438) to discuss
> approaches or even join efforts :)
>
> Best wishes,
> Artem Tikhomirov
>
> "Constantie Plotnikov" <constantine.plotnikov@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:ds5m5n$c33$1@utils.eclipse.org...
> Frederic Plante wrote:
>
>>However, an in-scope alternative could be the creation of some tooling
>>that
>>would take as input a domain meta-model and a textual notation model. It
>>would generate a text editor capable of editing instances of the
>>meta-model
>>using the textual notation. This is more-or-less a textual notation
>>version
>>of the Graphical Modeling Framework (GMF) project.
>>
>
> I’m currently working on open source project that has a goal
> to create a language definition framework that can be used as
> textual DSL construction kit. And it fits the quoted description
> quote well and can be considered as textual notation design
> tool. The framework is named Extensible Term Language (ETL).
> This language definition framework is very similar by architecture
> to XML.
>
>
Re: DSLs, language models and parsers [message #375877 is a reply to message #375871] Mon, 06 February 2006 08:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Constantine Plotnikov is currently offline Constantine Plotnikov
Messages: 45
Registered: July 2009
Member
I have unpacked documentation and XML files generated from samples on
project web site at
http://etl.sourceforge.net/etl-java-0_2_0/doc/readme.html

Constantine
EMF Expression Language [message #381901 is a reply to message #375866] Wed, 07 May 2008 15:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mickael Istria is currently offline Mickael Istria
Messages: 755
Registered: July 2009
Location: Grenoble, France
Senior Member
Hello,

I'm looking for something that would be able to do on EMF the same kind
of things that XPath can do on XML.
The aim would be to use this expression language in XML file describing
the model to reference some EMF entities.

Do you know whether such an expression language exists for EMF?

Regards,
Mickael
Re: EMF Expression Language [message #381902 is a reply to message #381901] Wed, 07 May 2008 15:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ed Merks is currently offline Ed Merks
Messages: 26054
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Mickael,

The JET project has XPath support against EMF objects. The OCL project
supports EMF object navigation as well. And of course EMF's fragment
paths are XPath-like and are supported by all models.


Mickael Istria wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I'm looking for something that would be able to do on EMF the same
> kind of things that XPath can do on XML.
> The aim would be to use this expression language in XML file
> describing the model to reference some EMF entities.
>
> Do you know whether such an expression language exists for EMF?
>
> Regards,
> Mickael
Re: EMF Expression Language [message #381903 is a reply to message #381902] Tue, 13 May 2008 07:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sven Efftinge is currently offline Sven Efftinge
Messages: 1762
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Also oAW's expression language can be used.
The latest version (4.3) has just been released under
www.eclipse.org/modeling/gmt/oaw

regards,
Sven

Ed Merks schrieb:
> Mickael,
>
> The JET project has XPath support against EMF objects. The OCL project
> supports EMF object navigation as well. And of course EMF's fragment
> paths are XPath-like and are supported by all models.
>
>
> Mickael Istria wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> I'm looking for something that would be able to do on EMF the same
>> kind of things that XPath can do on XML.
>> The aim would be to use this expression language in XML file
>> describing the model to reference some EMF entities.
>>
>> Do you know whether such an expression language exists for EMF?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Mickael


--
Need professional support on Xtext or Xtend?
Mail to: xtext (at) itemis.com
Twitter : @svenefftinge
Blog : blog.efftinge.de
Re: EMF Expression Language [message #381904 is a reply to message #381903] Tue, 13 May 2008 14:01 Go to previous message
Ed Merks is currently offline Ed Merks
Messages: 26054
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------090407000103090205070907
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Sven,

I think you mean

http://www.eclipse.org/gmt/oaw/

It's hard to find any documentation.

Be careful with the work release since when you talk about things
released at Eclipse, that implies a release review has taken place.
Probably you mean "made available" when you say "released"?


Sven Efftinge wrote:
> Also oAW's expression language can be used.
> The latest version (4.3) has just been released under
> www.eclipse.org/modeling/gmt/oaw
>
> regards,
> Sven
>
> Ed Merks schrieb:
>> Mickael,
>>
>> The JET project has XPath support against EMF objects. The OCL
>> project supports EMF object navigation as well. And of course EMF's
>> fragment paths are XPath-like and are supported by all models.
>>
>>
>> Mickael Istria wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I'm looking for something that would be able to do on EMF the same
>>> kind of things that XPath can do on XML.
>>> The aim would be to use this expression language in XML file
>>> describing the model to reference some EMF entities.
>>>
>>> Do you know whether such an expression language exists for EMF?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Mickael


--------------090407000103090205070907
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
Sven,<br>
<br>
I think you mean<br>
<blockquote><a href="http://www.eclipse.org/gmt/oaw/">http://www.eclipse.org/gmt/oaw/</a><br>
</blockquote>
It's hard to find any documentation.<br>
<br>
Be careful with the work release since when you talk about things
released at Eclipse, that implies a release review has taken place.&nbsp;
Probably you mean "made available" when you say "released"?<br>
<br>
<br>
Sven Efftinge wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:g0bequ$5im$1@build.eclipse.org" type="cite">Also
oAW's expression language can be used.
<br>
The latest version (4.3) has just been released under
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.eclipse.org/modeling/gmt/oaw">www.eclipse.org/modeling/gmt/oaw</a>
<br>
<br>
regards,
<br>
Sven
<br>
<br>
Ed Merks schrieb:
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">Mickael,
<br>
<br>
The JET project has XPath support against EMF objects.&nbsp; The OCL project
supports EMF object navigation as well.&nbsp; And of course EMF's fragment
paths are XPath-like and are supported by all models.
<br>
<br>
<br>
Mickael Istria wrote:
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">Hello,
<br>
<br>
I'm looking for something that would be able to do on EMF the same kind
of things that XPath can do on XML.
<br>
The aim would be to use this expression language in XML file describing
the model to reference some EMF entities.
<br>
<br>
Do you know whether such an expression language exists for EMF?
<br>
<br>
Regards,
<br>
Mickael
<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>

--------------090407000103090205070907--
Re: DSLs, language models and parsers [message #560567 is a reply to message #375866] Sun, 15 January 2006 23:22 Go to previous message
Frederic Plante is currently offline Frederic Plante
Messages: 4
Registered: July 2009
Junior Member
Hi Patxi,

Thanks for your interest for the modeling project!

If I understand your approach properly and do not attempt to read too much
between the lines, it seems your work could fall within the scope of the
modeling project, but would require some realignment.

As is, the approach is making use of a model describing a textual notation
to generate code that fulfills a task unrelated to modeling; parsing the
textual notation. This is an application of two modeling technologies:
modeling and transformation. This is out of scope since we are looking for
tooling/framework to support modeling activities, as opposed to their
application.

However, an in-scope alternative could be the creation of some tooling that
would take as input a domain meta-model and a textual notation model. It
would generate a text editor capable of editing instances of the meta-model
using the textual notation. This is more-or-less a textual notation version
of the Graphical Modeling Framework (GMF) project.

I hope this clarifies.

- Fred



"Francisco Gort
Re: DSLs, language models and parsers [message #560594 is a reply to message #375867] Sun, 05 February 2006 20:11 Go to previous message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: constantine.plotnikov.gmail.com

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------000804050500080800070000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Frederic Plante wrote:
>
> However, an in-scope alternative could be the creation of some tooling that
> would take as input a domain meta-model and a textual notation model. It
> would generate a text editor capable of editing instances of the meta-model
> using the textual notation. This is more-or-less a textual notation version
> of the Graphical Modeling Framework (GMF) project.
>
I
Re: DSLs, language models and parsers [message #560601 is a reply to message #375871] Sun, 05 February 2006 22:51 Go to previous message
Artem Tikhomirov is currently offline Artem Tikhomirov
Messages: 222
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Oh, there seems to be a lot of interest in the area of DSL textual
notation. Would be great to get all interested parties at EclipseCon (e.g.
at the next short talk:
http://canuck.gda.itesm.mx/eclipsezilla/show_bug.cgi?id=438) to discuss
approaches or even join efforts :)

Best wishes,
Artem Tikhomirov

"Constantie Plotnikov" <constantine.plotnikov@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ds5m5n$c33$1@utils.eclipse.org...
Frederic Plante wrote:
>
> However, an in-scope alternative could be the creation of some tooling
> that
> would take as input a domain meta-model and a textual notation model. It
> would generate a text editor capable of editing instances of the
> meta-model
> using the textual notation. This is more-or-less a textual notation
> version
> of the Graphical Modeling Framework (GMF) project.
>
I
Re: DSLs, language models and parsers [message #560607 is a reply to message #375873] Mon, 06 February 2006 06:02 Go to previous message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: constantine.plotnikov.gmail.com

I guess it is just a time for DSL toolkits to hatch out. I generally
very fond of idea of discussing approaches and joining efforts.

However it is very unlikely that I will manage to get to EclipseCON this
year due to a number of different reasons, but I will check this again.

So is it possible for discussion to happen on this group for a while? I
would like see some details on your approach.
What I'm interested are:

- samples of textual notation (including complex cases
like expressions);

- textual notation definition details;

- some architectual principles like extensibility model
(reusable language modules and creating new languages
that modify some language just a bit).

And I'm ready answer questions about my approach. I have tried to answer
some questions in documents and samples in the package. But I'm sure
that that you will have different questions. Also the questions will
give me focus for the next documentation update in the package.

Constantine

Artem Tikhomirov wrote:
> Oh, there seems to be a lot of interest in the area of DSL textual
> notation. Would be great to get all interested parties at EclipseCon (e.g.
> at the next short talk:
> http://canuck.gda.itesm.mx/eclipsezilla/show_bug.cgi?id=438) to discuss
> approaches or even join efforts :)
>
> Best wishes,
> Artem Tikhomirov
>
> "Constantie Plotnikov" <constantine.plotnikov@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:ds5m5n$c33$1@utils.eclipse.org...
> Frederic Plante wrote:
>
>>However, an in-scope alternative could be the creation of some tooling
>>that
>>would take as input a domain meta-model and a textual notation model. It
>>would generate a text editor capable of editing instances of the
>>meta-model
>>using the textual notation. This is more-or-less a textual notation
>>version
>>of the Graphical Modeling Framework (GMF) project.
>>
>
> I’m currently working on open source project that has a goal
> to create a language definition framework that can be used as
> textual DSL construction kit. And it fits the quoted description
> quote well and can be considered as textual notation design
> tool. The framework is named Extensible Term Language (ETL).
> This language definition framework is very similar by architecture
> to XML.
>
>
Re: DSLs, language models and parsers [message #560615 is a reply to message #375871] Mon, 06 February 2006 08:57 Go to previous message
Constantine Plotnikov is currently offline Constantine Plotnikov
Messages: 45
Registered: July 2009
Member
I have unpacked documentation and XML files generated from samples on
project web site at
http://etl.sourceforge.net/etl-java-0_2_0/doc/readme.html

Constantine
EMF Expression Language [message #606579 is a reply to message #375866] Wed, 07 May 2008 15:12 Go to previous message
Mickael Istria is currently offline Mickael Istria
Messages: 755
Registered: July 2009
Location: Grenoble, France
Senior Member
Hello,

I'm looking for something that would be able to do on EMF the same kind
of things that XPath can do on XML.
The aim would be to use this expression language in XML file describing
the model to reference some EMF entities.

Do you know whether such an expression language exists for EMF?

Regards,
Mickael
Re: EMF Expression Language [message #606581 is a reply to message #381901] Wed, 07 May 2008 15:31 Go to previous message
Ed Merks is currently offline Ed Merks
Messages: 26054
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Mickael,

The JET project has XPath support against EMF objects. The OCL project
supports EMF object navigation as well. And of course EMF's fragment
paths are XPath-like and are supported by all models.


Mickael Istria wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I'm looking for something that would be able to do on EMF the same
> kind of things that XPath can do on XML.
> The aim would be to use this expression language in XML file
> describing the model to reference some EMF entities.
>
> Do you know whether such an expression language exists for EMF?
>
> Regards,
> Mickael
Re: EMF Expression Language [message #606583 is a reply to message #381902] Tue, 13 May 2008 07:09 Go to previous message
Sven Efftinge is currently offline Sven Efftinge
Messages: 1762
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Also oAW's expression language can be used.
The latest version (4.3) has just been released under
www.eclipse.org/modeling/gmt/oaw

regards,
Sven

Ed Merks schrieb:
> Mickael,
>
> The JET project has XPath support against EMF objects. The OCL project
> supports EMF object navigation as well. And of course EMF's fragment
> paths are XPath-like and are supported by all models.
>
>
> Mickael Istria wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> I'm looking for something that would be able to do on EMF the same
>> kind of things that XPath can do on XML.
>> The aim would be to use this expression language in XML file
>> describing the model to reference some EMF entities.
>>
>> Do you know whether such an expression language exists for EMF?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Mickael


--
Need professional support on Xtext or Xtend?
Mail to: xtext (at) itemis.com
Twitter : @svenefftinge
Blog : blog.efftinge.de
Re: EMF Expression Language [message #606586 is a reply to message #381903] Tue, 13 May 2008 14:01 Go to previous message
Ed Merks is currently offline Ed Merks
Messages: 26054
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------090407000103090205070907
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Sven,

I think you mean

http://www.eclipse.org/gmt/oaw/

It's hard to find any documentation.

Be careful with the work release since when you talk about things
released at Eclipse, that implies a release review has taken place.
Probably you mean "made available" when you say "released"?


Sven Efftinge wrote:
> Also oAW's expression language can be used.
> The latest version (4.3) has just been released under
> www.eclipse.org/modeling/gmt/oaw
>
> regards,
> Sven
>
> Ed Merks schrieb:
>> Mickael,
>>
>> The JET project has XPath support against EMF objects. The OCL
>> project supports EMF object navigation as well. And of course EMF's
>> fragment paths are XPath-like and are supported by all models.
>>
>>
>> Mickael Istria wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I'm looking for something that would be able to do on EMF the same
>>> kind of things that XPath can do on XML.
>>> The aim would be to use this expression language in XML file
>>> describing the model to reference some EMF entities.
>>>
>>> Do you know whether such an expression language exists for EMF?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Mickael


--------------090407000103090205070907
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
Sven,<br>
<br>
I think you mean<br>
<blockquote><a href="http://www.eclipse.org/gmt/oaw/">http://www.eclipse.org/gmt/oaw/</a><br>
</blockquote>
It's hard to find any documentation.<br>
<br>
Be careful with the work release since when you talk about things
released at Eclipse, that implies a release review has taken place.&nbsp;
Probably you mean "made available" when you say "released"?<br>
<br>
<br>
Sven Efftinge wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:g0bequ$5im$1@build.eclipse.org" type="cite">Also
oAW's expression language can be used.
<br>
The latest version (4.3) has just been released under
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.eclipse.org/modeling/gmt/oaw">www.eclipse.org/modeling/gmt/oaw</a>
<br>
<br>
regards,
<br>
Sven
<br>
<br>
Ed Merks schrieb:
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">Mickael,
<br>
<br>
The JET project has XPath support against EMF objects.&nbsp; The OCL project
supports EMF object navigation as well.&nbsp; And of course EMF's fragment
paths are XPath-like and are supported by all models.
<br>
<br>
<br>
Mickael Istria wrote:
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">Hello,
<br>
<br>
I'm looking for something that would be able to do on EMF the same kind
of things that XPath can do on XML.
<br>
The aim would be to use this expression language in XML file describing
the model to reference some EMF entities.
<br>
<br>
Do you know whether such an expression language exists for EMF?
<br>
<br>
Regards,
<br>
Mickael
<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>

--------------090407000103090205070907--
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