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BPEL project and SOA Tools Project [message #375057] Sun, 22 February 2009 20:02 Go to next message
Derek Palma is currently offline Derek Palma
Messages: 141
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi,

I see what appears to be an old BPEL project (http://www.eclipse.org/bpel/).
Does anyone know the status of this project? I see others have asked on that
project's list and have gotten know response.

Can someone clarify how SOA tools deals with or views BPEL? Is seems there
is a way to generate Java from BPEL (so BPEL is being addressed in some
form).

Specifically I would like to know.

1) How does one generate BPEL? Is there a EMF model of BPEL we can use to
generate it programtically?

2) Which BPEL engines are supported? I presume most BPEL engines should work
but I would like to know the one that is the "default" for Eclipse projects
if there is one.

Thanks in advance!
Derek
Re: [stp-newsgroup] BPEL project and SOA Tools Project [message #375059 is a reply to message #375057] Mon, 23 February 2009 03:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Antoine Toulmé is currently offline Antoine Toulmé
Messages: 31
Registered: July 2009
Member
--0015174c3c5cd8e685046391fdf6
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Those questions would be better addressed by the BPEL project committers,
don't you think ?

Although they haven't been replying on the newsgroup for a while, they are
still hanging around.

Thanks,

Antoine

On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 2:02 AM, Derek Palma <derek.palma@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I see what appears to be an old BPEL project (http://www.eclipse.org/bpel/).
> Does anyone know the status of this project? I see others have asked on that
> project's list and have gotten know response.
>
> Can someone clarify how SOA tools deals with or views BPEL? Is seems there
> is a way to generate Java from BPEL (so BPEL is being addressed in some
> form).
>
> Specifically I would like to know.
>
> 1) How does one generate BPEL? Is there a EMF model of BPEL we can use to
> generate it programtically?
>
> 2) Which BPEL engines are supported? I presume most BPEL engines should
> work but I would like to know the one that is the "default" for Eclipse
> projects if there is one.
>
> Thanks in advance!
> Derek
> _______________________________________________
> stp-newsgroup mailing list
> stp-newsgroup@eclipse.org
> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/stp-newsgroup
>

--0015174c3c5cd8e685046391fdf6
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Those questions would be better addressed by the BPEL project committers, d=
on&#39;t you think ?<br><br>Although they haven&#39;t been replying on the =
newsgroup for a while, they are still hanging around.<br><br>Thanks,<br>
<br>Antoine<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 2:02 =
AM, Derek Palma <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:derek.palma@gmail.c=
om">derek.palma@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gma=
il_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0=
pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
Hi,<br>
<br>
I see what appears to be an old BPEL project (<a href=3D"http://www.eclipse=
..org/bpel/" target=3D"_blank">http://www.eclipse.org/bpel/</a>). Does anyon=
e know the status of this project? I see others have asked on that project&=
#39;s list and have gotten know response.<br>

<br>
Can someone clarify how SOA tools deals with or views BPEL? Is seems there =
is a way to generate Java from BPEL (so BPEL is being addressed in some for=
m).<br>
<br>
Specifically I would like to know.<br>
<br>
1) How does one generate BPEL? Is there a EMF model of BPEL we can use to g=
enerate it programtically?<br>
<br>
2) Which BPEL engines are supported? I presume most BPEL engines should wor=
k but I would like to know the one that is the &quot;default&quot; for Ecli=
pse projects if there is one.<br>
<br>
Thanks in advance!<br>
Derek <br>
_______________________________________________<br>
stp-newsgroup mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:stp-newsgroup@eclipse.org" target=3D"_blank">stp-newsgrou=
p@eclipse.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/stp-newsgroup" target=
=3D"_blank">https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/stp-newsgroup</a><br>
</blockquote></div><br>

--0015174c3c5cd8e685046391fdf6--
Re: [stp-newsgroup] BPEL project and SOA Tools Project [message #375062 is a reply to message #375057] Mon, 23 February 2009 05:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oisin Hurley is currently offline Oisin Hurley
Messages: 204
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi Derek,

> I see what appears to be an old BPEL project (http://www.eclipse.org/bpel/).
> Does anyone know the status of this project? I see others have asked on that
> project's list and have gotten know response.

This project is still active, although it's moving forward at a slow pace.
Have you tried the bpel-dev mailing list? It has had some activity recently.

> Can someone clarify how SOA tools deals with or views BPEL? Is seems there
> is a way to generate Java from BPEL (so BPEL is being addressed in some
> form)

The BPEL Project is all about creating BPEL using a graphical editor and
also about deploying BPEL to assorted BPEL containers.

The SOA Tools Project has a BPEL-related component, called BPEL2Java,
which allows you to generate a Java program from a BPEL script.

See http://www.eclipse.org/stp/b2j/ for some details about its capabilities
and how it might be used.

I think there's great potential for both of these things to be used together.
One of the things that I always scratched my head about was that once
you get a BPEL script 'right' then there's very little you need to do with
it unless your process changes, and I always thought that processes
should change (relatively) little over time. The result is that you don't
really need a general-purpose "BPEL Engine", but you would be fine
just generating Java and running that in a JVM.

Here's where I get told how wrong I am, I presume :)

> 1) How does one generate BPEL? Is there a EMF model of BPEL we can use to
> generate it programtically?

With the BPEL Project, you draw a diagram, and it will generate the BPEL
from the diagram. It has to have an EMF domain model to work with the
diagramming technology, so yes, there is a model there. But - I'd encourage
you to look under the covers yourself because I don't know the model
details.

If you are looking to generate BPEL from some other model, you could
take a look at Intermediate Model component of STP

http://wiki.eclipse.org/STP/IM_Component

which does a number of model transformations from a canonical SOA
model...

> 2) Which BPEL engines are supported? I presume most BPEL engines should work
> but I would like to know the one that is the "default" for Eclipse projects
> if there is one.

There's no default as far as I know, but certainly in Open-Source land
many people would use Ode, an Apache 2.0-licensed BPEL engine.

--oh
Re: [stp-newsgroup] BPEL project and SOA Tools Project [message #557985 is a reply to message #375062] Thu, 09 September 2010 13:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Robert Brodt is currently offline Robert Brodt
Messages: 577
Registered: August 2010
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Senior Member

Hi Derek,

You are correct - progress on the BPEL designer has slowed down to a halt in the last few years or so. But there is sufficient interest in the community to warrant a revival of this project and we (JBoss/Red Hat) are trying to do just that.

The problem is that there's a lot of work to be done and we have only limited resources to devote to this project. That said, we have already contributed several bug fixes and enhancements, updated the project website (still in progress) and started evangelizing and recruiting additional help.

I am open to any and all suggestions for improving the BPEL designer and if there are changes/enhancements/bug fixes that anyone has to contribute, please do contact me, as I will be driving the future direction as PL of this project. I would like to draw up a new roadmap in the next few days and post it on the project website, so please, please, please, help me out by making suggestions!

Thanks,

Bob
Re: [stp-newsgroup] BPEL project and SOA Tools Project [message #621190 is a reply to message #375057] Mon, 23 February 2009 03:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Antoine Toulmé is currently offline Antoine Toulmé
Messages: 31
Registered: July 2009
Member
--0015174c3c5cd8e685046391fdf6
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Those questions would be better addressed by the BPEL project committers,
don't you think ?

Although they haven't been replying on the newsgroup for a while, they are
still hanging around.

Thanks,

Antoine

On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 2:02 AM, Derek Palma <derek.palma@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I see what appears to be an old BPEL project (http://www.eclipse.org/bpel/).
> Does anyone know the status of this project? I see others have asked on that
> project's list and have gotten know response.
>
> Can someone clarify how SOA tools deals with or views BPEL? Is seems there
> is a way to generate Java from BPEL (so BPEL is being addressed in some
> form).
>
> Specifically I would like to know.
>
> 1) How does one generate BPEL? Is there a EMF model of BPEL we can use to
> generate it programtically?
>
> 2) Which BPEL engines are supported? I presume most BPEL engines should
> work but I would like to know the one that is the "default" for Eclipse
> projects if there is one.
>
> Thanks in advance!
> Derek
> _______________________________________________
> stp-newsgroup mailing list
> stp-newsgroup@eclipse.org
> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/stp-newsgroup
>

--0015174c3c5cd8e685046391fdf6
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Those questions would be better addressed by the BPEL project committers, d=
on&#39;t you think ?<br><br>Although they haven&#39;t been replying on the =
newsgroup for a while, they are still hanging around.<br><br>Thanks,<br>
<br>Antoine<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 2:02 =
AM, Derek Palma <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:derek.palma@gmail.c=
om">derek.palma@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gma=
il_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0=
pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
Hi,<br>
<br>
I see what appears to be an old BPEL project (<a href=3D"http://www.eclipse=
..org/bpel/" target=3D"_blank">http://www.eclipse.org/bpel/</a>). Does anyon=
e know the status of this project? I see others have asked on that project&=
#39;s list and have gotten know response.<br>

<br>
Can someone clarify how SOA tools deals with or views BPEL? Is seems there =
is a way to generate Java from BPEL (so BPEL is being addressed in some for=
m).<br>
<br>
Specifically I would like to know.<br>
<br>
1) How does one generate BPEL? Is there a EMF model of BPEL we can use to g=
enerate it programtically?<br>
<br>
2) Which BPEL engines are supported? I presume most BPEL engines should wor=
k but I would like to know the one that is the &quot;default&quot; for Ecli=
pse projects if there is one.<br>
<br>
Thanks in advance!<br>
Derek <br>
_______________________________________________<br>
stp-newsgroup mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:stp-newsgroup@eclipse.org" target=3D"_blank">stp-newsgrou=
p@eclipse.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/stp-newsgroup" target=
=3D"_blank">https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/stp-newsgroup</a><br>
</blockquote></div><br>

--0015174c3c5cd8e685046391fdf6--
Re: [stp-newsgroup] BPEL project and SOA Tools Project [message #621193 is a reply to message #375057] Mon, 23 February 2009 05:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oisin Hurley is currently offline Oisin Hurley
Messages: 204
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi Derek,

> I see what appears to be an old BPEL project (http://www.eclipse.org/bpel/).
> Does anyone know the status of this project? I see others have asked on that
> project's list and have gotten know response.

This project is still active, although it's moving forward at a slow pace.
Have you tried the bpel-dev mailing list? It has had some activity recently.

> Can someone clarify how SOA tools deals with or views BPEL? Is seems there
> is a way to generate Java from BPEL (so BPEL is being addressed in some
> form)

The BPEL Project is all about creating BPEL using a graphical editor and
also about deploying BPEL to assorted BPEL containers.

The SOA Tools Project has a BPEL-related component, called BPEL2Java,
which allows you to generate a Java program from a BPEL script.

See http://www.eclipse.org/stp/b2j/ for some details about its capabilities
and how it might be used.

I think there's great potential for both of these things to be used together.
One of the things that I always scratched my head about was that once
you get a BPEL script 'right' then there's very little you need to do with
it unless your process changes, and I always thought that processes
should change (relatively) little over time. The result is that you don't
really need a general-purpose "BPEL Engine", but you would be fine
just generating Java and running that in a JVM.

Here's where I get told how wrong I am, I presume :)

> 1) How does one generate BPEL? Is there a EMF model of BPEL we can use to
> generate it programtically?

With the BPEL Project, you draw a diagram, and it will generate the BPEL
from the diagram. It has to have an EMF domain model to work with the
diagramming technology, so yes, there is a model there. But - I'd encourage
you to look under the covers yourself because I don't know the model
details.

If you are looking to generate BPEL from some other model, you could
take a look at Intermediate Model component of STP

http://wiki.eclipse.org/STP/IM_Component

which does a number of model transformations from a canonical SOA
model...

> 2) Which BPEL engines are supported? I presume most BPEL engines should work
> but I would like to know the one that is the "default" for Eclipse projects
> if there is one.

There's no default as far as I know, but certainly in Open-Source land
many people would use Ode, an Apache 2.0-licensed BPEL engine.

--oh
Re: [stp-newsgroup] BPEL project and SOA Tools Project [message #621566 is a reply to message #375062] Thu, 09 September 2010 13:09 Go to previous message
Robert Brodt is currently offline Robert Brodt
Messages: 577
Registered: August 2010
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Senior Member

Hi Derek,

You are correct - progress on the BPEL designer has slowed down to a halt in the last few years or so. But there is sufficient interest in the community to warrant a revival of this project and we (JBoss/Red Hat) are trying to do just that.

The problem is that there's a lot of work to be done and we have only limited resources to devote to this project. That said, we have already contributed several bug fixes and enhancements, updated the project website (still in progress) and started evangelizing and recruiting additional help.

I am open to any and all suggestions for improving the BPEL designer and if there are changes/enhancements/bug fixes that anyone has to contribute, please do contact me, as I will be driving the future direction as PL of this project. I would like to draw up a new roadmap in the next few days and post it on the project website, so please, please, please, help me out by making suggestions!

Thanks,

Bob
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