Eclipse Community Forums
Forum Search:

Search      Help    Register    Login    Home
Home » Archived » OHF » doc/lit and document titles
doc/lit and document titles [message #33964] Fri, 05 October 2007 13:19 Go to next message
Jesse Pangburn is currently offline Jesse Pangburn
Messages: 166
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi,
First I want to thank you guys for your presentation on OHF yesterday at
the Workshop. I'm sorry I had to dash out early to catch a flight, I
scheduled it thinking people would just be goofing off by that time in the
afternoon- wish I had known the OHF stuff was going to be going on at that
time :-(

Anyway, I have a couple questions.
1. Why no support for doc/lit style web services? WSI (which IBM is a
part of) recommends doc/lit for best interoperability. Is it just the
choice of platform, Axis? My platform only supports being a consumer of
doc/lit web services, which is why I'm asking.

For our own usage, I tried reconfiguring the server-config.wsdd to use the
'style="wrapped"' mode. It does then give you a doc/lit WSDL, but the web
service's reply messages don't conform to the WSDL- wrong element names,
wrong namespaces, etc. I found some patches for Axis that aren't approved
yet, but which got me 90% of the way to fixing this problem (since I've
never used Axis before and didn't have a clue where to start), but still
returned XML that didn't quite validate against the schema. Anyway, by
reading the code in the patches I figured out the last 10% enough to patch
Axis to return XML that validates against the schema- at least for the OHF
Bridge. I put one little hardcoding in there, since as a complete Axis
noob I don't know how to retrieve a certain namespace from the
server-config.wsdd. But with the right entry in server-config.wsdd (to
match the hardcoding), it works perfectly. For this, I just patched the
Axis jar and copied it into the bundle. I only have the OHF bundles
building properly in eclipse, not Axis and the other bundles.

I can supply the Axis.jar and the server-config.wsdd to go with it, if
anyone else is unable to consume rpc/encoded services. Since that's
probably a very small group, I suspect I'm probably the only one here that
needs this- but thought I'd ask about future built-in support for doc/lit
anyway.

2. There is no document title parameter in the Bridge when you submit a
document. I thought this was a field that users would want to be using,
so I was surprised it was missing. It's in the POJOs, and I've looked at
the Bridge code so it seems like it should be easy to add the title as a
parameter. I was just wondering if it was left out intentionally, or just
due to very busy schedules. I haven't fixed it myself due to just that
very thing :-)


I had another question, but can't remember right now. Also, I just wanted
to say thanks again for creating this and laying out the code so that it's
very easy to follow what's going on and make changes as needed.

thanks,
Jesse
Re: doc/lit and document titles [message #34135 is a reply to message #33964] Fri, 05 October 2007 19:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
No real name is currently offline No real name
Messages: 292
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi Jesse,

Glad the presentation went well for you yesterday. Please feel free to
continue to ask those lingering questions here and we'll do our best to
clarify for the benefit of all.

I'll get Matt to respond to #1. For #2 - we wanted to enable a
simplified API for users. The submission process and the composition of
XDS Metadata can get very complex very quickly. The title you have in
your document (be it CDA, XDS-SD, whatever) will be preserved in the
document. The OHF bridge will then run the document through an automatic
metadata extraction routine that will populate additional metadata, like
title, author, that it can obtain from your document. POJOs can utilize
this feature too. It keeps the info in the document and the info in the
metadata consistent ... and you don't have to lift a finger :-) Then,
the bridge will send all this information (in addition to the metadata
you provide) to the XDS Registry.

We are in the process of creating alternate API for the OHF Bridge that
will allow Bridge users, who are more IHE savvy and want to do more
sophisticated submissions, to compose their own metadata. But ... we
don't anticipate, at this time, to have that API ready for North America
Connectation 2008. Perhaps by EU Connectathon 2008.

Hope this clarifies,
- Sarah


Jesse Pangburn wrote:
> Hi,
> First I want to thank you guys for your presentation on OHF yesterday at
> the Workshop. I'm sorry I had to dash out early to catch a flight, I
> scheduled it thinking people would just be goofing off by that time in
> the afternoon- wish I had known the OHF stuff was going to be going on
> at that time :-(
>
> Anyway, I have a couple questions.
> 1. Why no support for doc/lit style web services? WSI (which IBM is a
> part of) recommends doc/lit for best interoperability. Is it just the
> choice of platform, Axis? My platform only supports being a consumer of
> doc/lit web services, which is why I'm asking.
> For our own usage, I tried reconfiguring the server-config.wsdd to use
> the 'style="wrapped"' mode. It does then give you a doc/lit WSDL, but
> the web service's reply messages don't conform to the WSDL- wrong
> element names, wrong namespaces, etc. I found some patches for Axis
> that aren't approved yet, but which got me 90% of the way to fixing this
> problem (since I've never used Axis before and didn't have a clue where
> to start), but still returned XML that didn't quite validate against the
> schema. Anyway, by reading the code in the patches I figured out the
> last 10% enough to patch Axis to return XML that validates against the
> schema- at least for the OHF Bridge. I put one little hardcoding in
> there, since as a complete Axis noob I don't know how to retrieve a
> certain namespace from the server-config.wsdd. But with the right entry
> in server-config.wsdd (to match the hardcoding), it works perfectly.
> For this, I just patched the Axis jar and copied it into the bundle. I
> only have the OHF bundles building properly in eclipse, not Axis and the
> other bundles.
>
> I can supply the Axis.jar and the server-config.wsdd to go with it, if
> anyone else is unable to consume rpc/encoded services. Since that's
> probably a very small group, I suspect I'm probably the only one here
> that needs this- but thought I'd ask about future built-in support for
> doc/lit anyway.
>
> 2. There is no document title parameter in the Bridge when you submit a
> document. I thought this was a field that users would want to be using,
> so I was surprised it was missing. It's in the POJOs, and I've looked
> at the Bridge code so it seems like it should be easy to add the title
> as a parameter. I was just wondering if it was left out intentionally,
> or just due to very busy schedules. I haven't fixed it myself due to
> just that very thing :-)
>
>
> I had another question, but can't remember right now. Also, I just
> wanted to say thanks again for creating this and laying out the code so
> that it's very easy to follow what's going on and make changes as needed.
>
> thanks,
> Jesse
>
Re: doc/lit and document titles [message #34169 is a reply to message #34135] Fri, 05 October 2007 19:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
No real name is currently offline No real name
Messages: 292
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
To further clarify ... the automatic metadata extraction routine is ony
implemented for HL7 CDA R2 based documents.

- Sarah

Sarah Knoop wrote:
> Hi Jesse,
>
> Glad the presentation went well for you yesterday. Please feel free to
> continue to ask those lingering questions here and we'll do our best to
> clarify for the benefit of all.
>
> I'll get Matt to respond to #1. For #2 - we wanted to enable a
> simplified API for users. The submission process and the composition of
> XDS Metadata can get very complex very quickly. The title you have in
> your document (be it CDA, XDS-SD, whatever) will be preserved in the
> document. The OHF bridge will then run the document through an automatic
> metadata extraction routine that will populate additional metadata, like
> title, author, that it can obtain from your document. POJOs can utilize
> this feature too. It keeps the info in the document and the info in the
> metadata consistent ... and you don't have to lift a finger :-) Then,
> the bridge will send all this information (in addition to the metadata
> you provide) to the XDS Registry.
>
> We are in the process of creating alternate API for the OHF Bridge that
> will allow Bridge users, who are more IHE savvy and want to do more
> sophisticated submissions, to compose their own metadata. But ... we
> don't anticipate, at this time, to have that API ready for North America
> Connectation 2008. Perhaps by EU Connectathon 2008.
>
> Hope this clarifies,
> - Sarah
>
>
> Jesse Pangburn wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>> First I want to thank you guys for your presentation on OHF yesterday
>> at the Workshop. I'm sorry I had to dash out early to catch a flight,
>> I scheduled it thinking people would just be goofing off by that time
>> in the afternoon- wish I had known the OHF stuff was going to be going
>> on at that time :-(
>>
>> Anyway, I have a couple questions.
>> 1. Why no support for doc/lit style web services? WSI (which IBM is
>> a part of) recommends doc/lit for best interoperability. Is it just
>> the choice of platform, Axis? My platform only supports being a
>> consumer of doc/lit web services, which is why I'm asking. For our own
>> usage, I tried reconfiguring the server-config.wsdd to use the
>> 'style="wrapped"' mode. It does then give you a doc/lit WSDL, but the
>> web service's reply messages don't conform to the WSDL- wrong element
>> names, wrong namespaces, etc. I found some patches for Axis that
>> aren't approved yet, but which got me 90% of the way to fixing this
>> problem (since I've never used Axis before and didn't have a clue
>> where to start), but still returned XML that didn't quite validate
>> against the schema. Anyway, by reading the code in the patches I
>> figured out the last 10% enough to patch Axis to return XML that
>> validates against the schema- at least for the OHF Bridge. I put one
>> little hardcoding in there, since as a complete Axis noob I don't know
>> how to retrieve a certain namespace from the server-config.wsdd. But
>> with the right entry in server-config.wsdd (to match the hardcoding),
>> it works perfectly. For this, I just patched the Axis jar and copied
>> it into the bundle. I only have the OHF bundles building properly in
>> eclipse, not Axis and the other bundles.
>>
>> I can supply the Axis.jar and the server-config.wsdd to go with it, if
>> anyone else is unable to consume rpc/encoded services. Since that's
>> probably a very small group, I suspect I'm probably the only one here
>> that needs this- but thought I'd ask about future built-in support for
>> doc/lit anyway.
>>
>> 2. There is no document title parameter in the Bridge when you submit
>> a document. I thought this was a field that users would want to be
>> using, so I was surprised it was missing. It's in the POJOs, and I've
>> looked at the Bridge code so it seems like it should be easy to add
>> the title as a parameter. I was just wondering if it was left out
>> intentionally, or just due to very busy schedules. I haven't fixed it
>> myself due to just that very thing :-)
>>
>>
>> I had another question, but can't remember right now. Also, I just
>> wanted to say thanks again for creating this and laying out the code
>> so that it's very easy to follow what's going on and make changes as
>> needed.
>>
>> thanks,
>> Jesse
>>
Re: doc/lit and document titles [message #34234 is a reply to message #34169] Mon, 08 October 2007 12:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Matthew Davis
Messages: 269
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Jesse,

This is an excellent question about doc/lit vs. RPC. I don't have a
good answer for the initial case because it wasn't really my decision.
But, as of recent, there's really only one reason that we've stayed with
RPC and that is - for some people already using the Bridge, regenerating
their WSDL proxies for document-style Web service won't be possible / easy.

Touching more on what Sarah has mentioned below, we're definitely
looking at new APIs for the OHF Bridge and all will be doc/lit. We will
also remove the RPC requirement on the current API. We're debating
internally which Web service engine to use... Axis2 / XFire(now Apache
CXF) / etc.

We envision making them more IHE savvy - e.g. exposing the raw OHF XDS
API - SDOs over EMF. Another example would be a proxy engine for people
who can compose their own IHE transaction (HL7 v2.x/v3 messages, ebXML,
etc) but want to do some middle layer postprocessing - a good example
would be handling mutual TLS authentication.

The question on document title, that comes off the metadata extraction
utility from CDA. Document submission is one of the biggest
shortcomings of the Bridge and is something we hope to fix :)

Thanks for your questions and hope this helps!
-Matt



Sarah Knoop wrote:
> To further clarify ... the automatic metadata extraction routine is ony
> implemented for HL7 CDA R2 based documents.
>
> - Sarah
>
> Sarah Knoop wrote:
>> Hi Jesse,
>>
>> Glad the presentation went well for you yesterday. Please feel free to
>> continue to ask those lingering questions here and we'll do our best
>> to clarify for the benefit of all.
>>
>> I'll get Matt to respond to #1. For #2 - we wanted to enable a
>> simplified API for users. The submission process and the composition
>> of XDS Metadata can get very complex very quickly. The title you have
>> in your document (be it CDA, XDS-SD, whatever) will be preserved in
>> the document. The OHF bridge will then run the document through an
>> automatic metadata extraction routine that will populate additional
>> metadata, like title, author, that it can obtain from your document.
>> POJOs can utilize this feature too. It keeps the info in the document
>> and the info in the metadata consistent ... and you don't have to lift
>> a finger :-) Then, the bridge will send all this information (in
>> addition to the metadata you provide) to the XDS Registry.
>>
>> We are in the process of creating alternate API for the OHF Bridge
>> that will allow Bridge users, who are more IHE savvy and want to do
>> more sophisticated submissions, to compose their own metadata. But ...
>> we don't anticipate, at this time, to have that API ready for North
>> America Connectation 2008. Perhaps by EU Connectathon 2008.
>>
>> Hope this clarifies,
>> - Sarah
>>
>>
>> Jesse Pangburn wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>> First I want to thank you guys for your presentation on OHF yesterday
>>> at the Workshop. I'm sorry I had to dash out early to catch a
>>> flight, I scheduled it thinking people would just be goofing off by
>>> that time in the afternoon- wish I had known the OHF stuff was going
>>> to be going on at that time :-(
>>>
>>> Anyway, I have a couple questions.
>>> 1. Why no support for doc/lit style web services? WSI (which IBM is
>>> a part of) recommends doc/lit for best interoperability. Is it just
>>> the choice of platform, Axis? My platform only supports being a
>>> consumer of doc/lit web services, which is why I'm asking. For our
>>> own usage, I tried reconfiguring the server-config.wsdd to use the
>>> 'style="wrapped"' mode. It does then give you a doc/lit WSDL, but
>>> the web service's reply messages don't conform to the WSDL- wrong
>>> element names, wrong namespaces, etc. I found some patches for Axis
>>> that aren't approved yet, but which got me 90% of the way to fixing
>>> this problem (since I've never used Axis before and didn't have a
>>> clue where to start), but still returned XML that didn't quite
>>> validate against the schema. Anyway, by reading the code in the
>>> patches I figured out the last 10% enough to patch Axis to return XML
>>> that validates against the schema- at least for the OHF Bridge. I
>>> put one little hardcoding in there, since as a complete Axis noob I
>>> don't know how to retrieve a certain namespace from the
>>> server-config.wsdd. But with the right entry in server-config.wsdd
>>> (to match the hardcoding), it works perfectly. For this, I just
>>> patched the Axis jar and copied it into the bundle. I only have the
>>> OHF bundles building properly in eclipse, not Axis and the other
>>> bundles.
>>>
>>> I can supply the Axis.jar and the server-config.wsdd to go with it,
>>> if anyone else is unable to consume rpc/encoded services. Since
>>> that's probably a very small group, I suspect I'm probably the only
>>> one here that needs this- but thought I'd ask about future built-in
>>> support for doc/lit anyway.
>>>
>>> 2. There is no document title parameter in the Bridge when you
>>> submit a document. I thought this was a field that users would want
>>> to be using, so I was surprised it was missing. It's in the POJOs,
>>> and I've looked at the Bridge code so it seems like it should be easy
>>> to add the title as a parameter. I was just wondering if it was left
>>> out intentionally, or just due to very busy schedules. I haven't
>>> fixed it myself due to just that very thing :-)
>>>
>>>
>>> I had another question, but can't remember right now. Also, I just
>>> wanted to say thanks again for creating this and laying out the code
>>> so that it's very easy to follow what's going on and make changes as
>>> needed.
>>>
>>> thanks,
>>> Jesse
>>>
Re: doc/lit and document titles [message #34337 is a reply to message #34234] Mon, 08 October 2007 15:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jesse Pangburn is currently offline Jesse Pangburn
Messages: 166
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi Sarah and Matthew,
Thanks for the well thought out and thorough replies!

The meta data extraction thing makes a lot of sense. I was wondering why
there was all this hardcoding in the bridge related to CDA R2 when I was
skipping through the code, now it's clear. I just haven't submitted any
CDA R2 docs to the bridge yet, I've just sent plain old xml and text docs
for my testing purposes. So I'm looking forward to trying this out with a
CDA and seeing it grab the title/author/whatever.

> But, as of recent, there's really only one reason that we've stayed with
> RPC and that is - for some people already using the Bridge, regenerating
> their WSDL proxies for document-style Web service won't be possible / easy.
Regarding this, on the bridge that I've modified to have doc/lit,
rpc/encoded is still there. In the server-config.wsdd you are not
restricted to just one service, I simply copied the RPC service and then
gave it a different name ("ohf-bridge-wrapped" instead of "ohf-bridge")
and set the 'style="wrapped"' attribute on it. So the original
"ohf-bridge" service is running unchanged and still works fine from your
PHP sample app, and the new service "ohf-bridge-wrapped" is happily
running along side it and accepting doc/lit wrapped style service
requests. There's no reason not to have both, you just have to have a
separate service- so existing users will be unaffected. Just to be clear,
this is a slightly modified Axis 1.4 that I'm using.

> utility from CDA. Document submission is one of the biggest
> shortcomings of the Bridge and is something we hope to fix :)
I found the document submission method to be pretty easy to use, though
it'll be important to support more document types. Things like PDFs will
require that the method have parameters like title and such since you
won't be able to extract it from the PDF. However, there's a method
called "WrapInCdaAndSubmitDocument" whose parameters are very confusing-
there are parameters like the url to the document. That's the
repository's job to generate that URL, I would not know that at submission
time. There are a few other parameters like that- and it's very likely
that I'm just completely new to CDA and IHE and missing something, but to
me they didn't make sense. But fortunately the "SubmitDocument" method is
VERY easy to use.

thanks!
Jesse

Matthew Davis wrote:

> Jesse,

> This is an excellent question about doc/lit vs. RPC. I don't have a
> good answer for the initial case because it wasn't really my decision.
> But, as of recent, there's really only one reason that we've stayed with
> RPC and that is - for some people already using the Bridge, regenerating
> their WSDL proxies for document-style Web service won't be possible / easy.

> Touching more on what Sarah has mentioned below, we're definitely
> looking at new APIs for the OHF Bridge and all will be doc/lit. We will
> also remove the RPC requirement on the current API. We're debating
> internally which Web service engine to use... Axis2 / XFire(now Apache
> CXF) / etc.

> We envision making them more IHE savvy - e.g. exposing the raw OHF XDS
> API - SDOs over EMF. Another example would be a proxy engine for people
> who can compose their own IHE transaction (HL7 v2.x/v3 messages, ebXML,
> etc) but want to do some middle layer postprocessing - a good example
> would be handling mutual TLS authentication.

> The question on document title, that comes off the metadata extraction
> utility from CDA. Document submission is one of the biggest
> shortcomings of the Bridge and is something we hope to fix :)

> Thanks for your questions and hope this helps!
> -Matt



> Sarah Knoop wrote:
>> To further clarify ... the automatic metadata extraction routine is ony
>> implemented for HL7 CDA R2 based documents.
>>
>> - Sarah
>>
>> Sarah Knoop wrote:
>>> Hi Jesse,
>>>
>>> Glad the presentation went well for you yesterday. Please feel free to
>>> continue to ask those lingering questions here and we'll do our best
>>> to clarify for the benefit of all.
>>>
>>> I'll get Matt to respond to #1. For #2 - we wanted to enable a
>>> simplified API for users. The submission process and the composition
>>> of XDS Metadata can get very complex very quickly. The title you have
>>> in your document (be it CDA, XDS-SD, whatever) will be preserved in
>>> the document. The OHF bridge will then run the document through an
>>> automatic metadata extraction routine that will populate additional
>>> metadata, like title, author, that it can obtain from your document.
>>> POJOs can utilize this feature too. It keeps the info in the document
>>> and the info in the metadata consistent ... and you don't have to lift
>>> a finger :-) Then, the bridge will send all this information (in
>>> addition to the metadata you provide) to the XDS Registry.
>>>
>>> We are in the process of creating alternate API for the OHF Bridge
>>> that will allow Bridge users, who are more IHE savvy and want to do
>>> more sophisticated submissions, to compose their own metadata. But ...
>>> we don't anticipate, at this time, to have that API ready for North
>>> America Connectation 2008. Perhaps by EU Connectathon 2008.
>>>
>>> Hope this clarifies,
>>> - Sarah
>>>
>>>
>>> Jesse Pangburn wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>> First I want to thank you guys for your presentation on OHF yesterday
>>>> at the Workshop. I'm sorry I had to dash out early to catch a
>>>> flight, I scheduled it thinking people would just be goofing off by
>>>> that time in the afternoon- wish I had known the OHF stuff was going
>>>> to be going on at that time :-(
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, I have a couple questions.
>>>> 1. Why no support for doc/lit style web services? WSI (which IBM is
>>>> a part of) recommends doc/lit for best interoperability. Is it just
>>>> the choice of platform, Axis? My platform only supports being a
>>>> consumer of doc/lit web services, which is why I'm asking. For our
>>>> own usage, I tried reconfiguring the server-config.wsdd to use the
>>>> 'style="wrapped"' mode. It does then give you a doc/lit WSDL, but
>>>> the web service's reply messages don't conform to the WSDL- wrong
>>>> element names, wrong namespaces, etc. I found some patches for Axis
>>>> that aren't approved yet, but which got me 90% of the way to fixing
>>>> this problem (since I've never used Axis before and didn't have a
>>>> clue where to start), but still returned XML that didn't quite
>>>> validate against the schema. Anyway, by reading the code in the
>>>> patches I figured out the last 10% enough to patch Axis to return XML
>>>> that validates against the schema- at least for the OHF Bridge. I
>>>> put one little hardcoding in there, since as a complete Axis noob I
>>>> don't know how to retrieve a certain namespace from the
>>>> server-config.wsdd. But with the right entry in server-config.wsdd
>>>> (to match the hardcoding), it works perfectly. For this, I just
>>>> patched the Axis jar and copied it into the bundle. I only have the
>>>> OHF bundles building properly in eclipse, not Axis and the other
>>>> bundles.
>>>>
>>>> I can supply the Axis.jar and the server-config.wsdd to go with it,
>>>> if anyone else is unable to consume rpc/encoded services. Since
>>>> that's probably a very small group, I suspect I'm probably the only
>>>> one here that needs this- but thought I'd ask about future built-in
>>>> support for doc/lit anyway.
>>>>
>>>> 2. There is no document title parameter in the Bridge when you
>>>> submit a document. I thought this was a field that users would want
>>>> to be using, so I was surprised it was missing. It's in the POJOs,
>>>> and I've looked at the Bridge code so it seems like it should be easy
>>>> to add the title as a parameter. I was just wondering if it was left
>>>> out intentionally, or just due to very busy schedules. I haven't
>>>> fixed it myself due to just that very thing :-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I had another question, but can't remember right now. Also, I just
>>>> wanted to say thanks again for creating this and laying out the code
>>>> so that it's very easy to follow what's going on and make changes as
>>>> needed.
>>>>
>>>> thanks,
>>>> Jesse
>>>>
Re: doc/lit and document titles [message #38503 is a reply to message #34234] Thu, 06 December 2007 04:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Takeo Satomi is currently offline Takeo Satomi
Messages: 32
Registered: July 2009
Member
Matthew,

So what if I see any error with doc/lit messaging? Should I post it to
the bugzilla? Actually these days I've been trying to use a SOAP library
which supports only doc/lit style but never made it successfull. Or
maybe I should wait until Connectathon ends as you must be terribly busy
with preparation for it.

Regards,
Takeo Satomi

Matthew Davis wrote:

> Jesse,

> This is an excellent question about doc/lit vs. RPC. I don't have a
> good answer for the initial case because it wasn't really my decision.
> But, as of recent, there's really only one reason that we've stayed with
> RPC and that is - for some people already using the Bridge, regenerating
> their WSDL proxies for document-style Web service won't be possible / easy.

> Touching more on what Sarah has mentioned below, we're definitely
> looking at new APIs for the OHF Bridge and all will be doc/lit. We will
> also remove the RPC requirement on the current API. We're debating
> internally which Web service engine to use... Axis2 / XFire(now Apache
> CXF) / etc.

> We envision making them more IHE savvy - e.g. exposing the raw OHF XDS
> API - SDOs over EMF. Another example would be a proxy engine for people
> who can compose their own IHE transaction (HL7 v2.x/v3 messages, ebXML,
> etc) but want to do some middle layer postprocessing - a good example
> would be handling mutual TLS authentication.

> The question on document title, that comes off the metadata extraction
> utility from CDA. Document submission is one of the biggest
> shortcomings of the Bridge and is something we hope to fix :)

> Thanks for your questions and hope this helps!
> -Matt



> Sarah Knoop wrote:
>> To further clarify ... the automatic metadata extraction routine is ony
>> implemented for HL7 CDA R2 based documents.
>>
>> - Sarah
>>
>> Sarah Knoop wrote:
>>> Hi Jesse,
>>>
>>> Glad the presentation went well for you yesterday. Please feel free to
>>> continue to ask those lingering questions here and we'll do our best
>>> to clarify for the benefit of all.
>>>
>>> I'll get Matt to respond to #1. For #2 - we wanted to enable a
>>> simplified API for users. The submission process and the composition
>>> of XDS Metadata can get very complex very quickly. The title you have
>>> in your document (be it CDA, XDS-SD, whatever) will be preserved in
>>> the document. The OHF bridge will then run the document through an
>>> automatic metadata extraction routine that will populate additional
>>> metadata, like title, author, that it can obtain from your document.
>>> POJOs can utilize this feature too. It keeps the info in the document
>>> and the info in the metadata consistent ... and you don't have to lift
>>> a finger :-) Then, the bridge will send all this information (in
>>> addition to the metadata you provide) to the XDS Registry.
>>>
>>> We are in the process of creating alternate API for the OHF Bridge
>>> that will allow Bridge users, who are more IHE savvy and want to do
>>> more sophisticated submissions, to compose their own metadata. But ...
>>> we don't anticipate, at this time, to have that API ready for North
>>> America Connectation 2008. Perhaps by EU Connectathon 2008.
>>>
>>> Hope this clarifies,
>>> - Sarah
>>>
>>>
>>> Jesse Pangburn wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>> First I want to thank you guys for your presentation on OHF yesterday
>>>> at the Workshop. I'm sorry I had to dash out early to catch a
>>>> flight, I scheduled it thinking people would just be goofing off by
>>>> that time in the afternoon- wish I had known the OHF stuff was going
>>>> to be going on at that time :-(
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, I have a couple questions.
>>>> 1. Why no support for doc/lit style web services? WSI (which IBM is
>>>> a part of) recommends doc/lit for best interoperability. Is it just
>>>> the choice of platform, Axis? My platform only supports being a
>>>> consumer of doc/lit web services, which is why I'm asking. For our
>>>> own usage, I tried reconfiguring the server-config.wsdd to use the
>>>> 'style="wrapped"' mode. It does then give you a doc/lit WSDL, but
>>>> the web service's reply messages don't conform to the WSDL- wrong
>>>> element names, wrong namespaces, etc. I found some patches for Axis
>>>> that aren't approved yet, but which got me 90% of the way to fixing
>>>> this problem (since I've never used Axis before and didn't have a
>>>> clue where to start), but still returned XML that didn't quite
>>>> validate against the schema. Anyway, by reading the code in the
>>>> patches I figured out the last 10% enough to patch Axis to return XML
>>>> that validates against the schema- at least for the OHF Bridge. I
>>>> put one little hardcoding in there, since as a complete Axis noob I
>>>> don't know how to retrieve a certain namespace from the
>>>> server-config.wsdd. But with the right entry in server-config.wsdd
>>>> (to match the hardcoding), it works perfectly. For this, I just
>>>> patched the Axis jar and copied it into the bundle. I only have the
>>>> OHF bundles building properly in eclipse, not Axis and the other
>>>> bundles.
>>>>
>>>> I can supply the Axis.jar and the server-config.wsdd to go with it,
>>>> if anyone else is unable to consume rpc/encoded services. Since
>>>> that's probably a very small group, I suspect I'm probably the only
>>>> one here that needs this- but thought I'd ask about future built-in
>>>> support for doc/lit anyway.
>>>>
>>>> 2. There is no document title parameter in the Bridge when you
>>>> submit a document. I thought this was a field that users would want
>>>> to be using, so I was surprised it was missing. It's in the POJOs,
>>>> and I've looked at the Bridge code so it seems like it should be easy
>>>> to add the title as a parameter. I was just wondering if it was left
>>>> out intentionally, or just due to very busy schedules. I haven't
>>>> fixed it myself due to just that very thing :-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I had another question, but can't remember right now. Also, I just
>>>> wanted to say thanks again for creating this and laying out the code
>>>> so that it's very easy to follow what's going on and make changes as
>>>> needed.
>>>>
>>>> thanks,
>>>> Jesse
>>>>
Re: doc/lit and document titles [message #38569 is a reply to message #38503] Thu, 06 December 2007 11:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Matthew Davis
Messages: 269
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi Takeo,

Yes, please go ahead and post a bug. No guarantees I'll get to it
immediately, but if it's a "Connectathon breaker" for you, then I can
give it a higher priority. Either way, it'll be good to be in Bugzilla.

Thanks again,
-Matt


Takeo Satomi wrote:
> Matthew,
>
> So what if I see any error with doc/lit messaging? Should I post it to
> the bugzilla? Actually these days I've been trying to use a SOAP
> library which supports only doc/lit style but never made it
> successfull. Or maybe I should wait until Connectathon ends as you
> must be terribly busy with preparation for it.
>
> Regards,
> Takeo Satomi
>
> Matthew Davis wrote:
>
>> Jesse,
>
>> This is an excellent question about doc/lit vs. RPC. I don't have a
>> good answer for the initial case because it wasn't really my decision.
>> But, as of recent, there's really only one reason that we've stayed
>> with RPC and that is - for some people already using the Bridge,
>> regenerating their WSDL proxies for document-style Web service won't
>> be possible / easy.
>
>> Touching more on what Sarah has mentioned below, we're definitely
>> looking at new APIs for the OHF Bridge and all will be doc/lit. We
>> will also remove the RPC requirement on the current API. We're
>> debating internally which Web service engine to use... Axis2 /
>> XFire(now Apache CXF) / etc.
>
>> We envision making them more IHE savvy - e.g. exposing the raw OHF XDS
>> API - SDOs over EMF. Another example would be a proxy engine for
>> people who can compose their own IHE transaction (HL7 v2.x/v3
>> messages, ebXML, etc) but want to do some middle layer postprocessing
>> - a good example would be handling mutual TLS authentication.
>
>> The question on document title, that comes off the metadata extraction
>> utility from CDA. Document submission is one of the biggest
>> shortcomings of the Bridge and is something we hope to fix :)
>
>> Thanks for your questions and hope this helps!
>> -Matt
>
>
>
>> Sarah Knoop wrote:
>>> To further clarify ... the automatic metadata extraction routine is
>>> ony implemented for HL7 CDA R2 based documents.
>>>
>>> - Sarah
>>>
>>> Sarah Knoop wrote:
>>>> Hi Jesse,
>>>>
>>>> Glad the presentation went well for you yesterday. Please feel free
>>>> to continue to ask those lingering questions here and we'll do our
>>>> best to clarify for the benefit of all.
>>>>
>>>> I'll get Matt to respond to #1. For #2 - we wanted to enable a
>>>> simplified API for users. The submission process and the composition
>>>> of XDS Metadata can get very complex very quickly. The title you
>>>> have in your document (be it CDA, XDS-SD, whatever) will be
>>>> preserved in the document. The OHF bridge will then run the document
>>>> through an automatic metadata extraction routine that will populate
>>>> additional metadata, like title, author, that it can obtain from
>>>> your document. POJOs can utilize this feature too. It keeps the info
>>>> in the document and the info in the metadata consistent ... and you
>>>> don't have to lift a finger :-) Then, the bridge will send all this
>>>> information (in addition to the metadata you provide) to the XDS
>>>> Registry.
>>>>
>>>> We are in the process of creating alternate API for the OHF Bridge
>>>> that will allow Bridge users, who are more IHE savvy and want to do
>>>> more sophisticated submissions, to compose their own metadata. But
>>>> ... we don't anticipate, at this time, to have that API ready for
>>>> North America Connectation 2008. Perhaps by EU Connectathon 2008.
>>>>
>>>> Hope this clarifies,
>>>> - Sarah
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Jesse Pangburn wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> First I want to thank you guys for your presentation on OHF
>>>>> yesterday at the Workshop. I'm sorry I had to dash out early to
>>>>> catch a flight, I scheduled it thinking people would just be
>>>>> goofing off by that time in the afternoon- wish I had known the OHF
>>>>> stuff was going to be going on at that time :-(
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, I have a couple questions.
>>>>> 1. Why no support for doc/lit style web services? WSI (which IBM
>>>>> is a part of) recommends doc/lit for best interoperability. Is it
>>>>> just the choice of platform, Axis? My platform only supports being
>>>>> a consumer of doc/lit web services, which is why I'm asking. For
>>>>> our own usage, I tried reconfiguring the server-config.wsdd to use
>>>>> the 'style="wrapped"' mode. It does then give you a doc/lit WSDL,
>>>>> but the web service's reply messages don't conform to the WSDL-
>>>>> wrong element names, wrong namespaces, etc. I found some patches
>>>>> for Axis that aren't approved yet, but which got me 90% of the way
>>>>> to fixing this problem (since I've never used Axis before and
>>>>> didn't have a clue where to start), but still returned XML that
>>>>> didn't quite validate against the schema. Anyway, by reading the
>>>>> code in the patches I figured out the last 10% enough to patch Axis
>>>>> to return XML that validates against the schema- at least for the
>>>>> OHF Bridge. I put one little hardcoding in there, since as a
>>>>> complete Axis noob I don't know how to retrieve a certain namespace
>>>>> from the server-config.wsdd. But with the right entry in
>>>>> server-config.wsdd (to match the hardcoding), it works perfectly.
>>>>> For this, I just patched the Axis jar and copied it into the
>>>>> bundle. I only have the OHF bundles building properly in eclipse,
>>>>> not Axis and the other bundles.
>>>>>
>>>>> I can supply the Axis.jar and the server-config.wsdd to go with it,
>>>>> if anyone else is unable to consume rpc/encoded services. Since
>>>>> that's probably a very small group, I suspect I'm probably the only
>>>>> one here that needs this- but thought I'd ask about future built-in
>>>>> support for doc/lit anyway.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. There is no document title parameter in the Bridge when you
>>>>> submit a document. I thought this was a field that users would
>>>>> want to be using, so I was surprised it was missing. It's in the
>>>>> POJOs, and I've looked at the Bridge code so it seems like it
>>>>> should be easy to add the title as a parameter. I was just
>>>>> wondering if it was left out intentionally, or just due to very
>>>>> busy schedules. I haven't fixed it myself due to just that very
>>>>> thing :-)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I had another question, but can't remember right now. Also, I just
>>>>> wanted to say thanks again for creating this and laying out the
>>>>> code so that it's very easy to follow what's going on and make
>>>>> changes as needed.
>>>>>
>>>>> thanks,
>>>>> Jesse
>>>>>
>
>
Re: doc/lit and document titles [message #38602 is a reply to message #38503] Thu, 06 December 2007 13:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jesse Pangburn is currently offline Jesse Pangburn
Messages: 166
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi Takeo,
I have a patch to the Axis used in the bridge that is used to provide
doc/lit wrapped interface as it's the only kind that my tools support. I
made the patch myself (cobbled together from some patches posted on the
web that I modified to make work here) and I know almost nothing about
Axis so it's not perfect- not even close. It seems to work on all the web
services in the bridge except for the getRhios- there's some types of
arrays there and some namespaces that seem to screw it up. But if you can
live without that operation, you're welcome to try my patch.

The bridge comes with Axis 1.3 for receiving the web service requests. I
put my patch on Axis 1.4 FINAL, but it seems to work with the bridge. If
you want to try it, send me a private email to jesse dot pangburn at
quovadx dot com. Email addresses here in normal form show up with the
company name xxxxx'd out: jesse.pangburn@quovadx.com.

thanks,
Jesse

Takeo Satomi wrote:

> Matthew,

> So what if I see any error with doc/lit messaging? Should I post it to
> the bugzilla? Actually these days I've been trying to use a SOAP library
> which supports only doc/lit style but never made it successfull. Or
> maybe I should wait until Connectathon ends as you must be terribly busy
> with preparation for it.

> Regards,
> Takeo Satomi

> Matthew Davis wrote:

>> Jesse,

>> This is an excellent question about doc/lit vs. RPC. I don't have a
>> good answer for the initial case because it wasn't really my decision.
>> But, as of recent, there's really only one reason that we've stayed with
>> RPC and that is - for some people already using the Bridge, regenerating
>> their WSDL proxies for document-style Web service won't be possible / easy.

>> Touching more on what Sarah has mentioned below, we're definitely
>> looking at new APIs for the OHF Bridge and all will be doc/lit. We will
>> also remove the RPC requirement on the current API. We're debating
>> internally which Web service engine to use... Axis2 / XFire(now Apache
>> CXF) / etc.

>> We envision making them more IHE savvy - e.g. exposing the raw OHF XDS
>> API - SDOs over EMF. Another example would be a proxy engine for people
>> who can compose their own IHE transaction (HL7 v2.x/v3 messages, ebXML,
>> etc) but want to do some middle layer postprocessing - a good example
>> would be handling mutual TLS authentication.

>> The question on document title, that comes off the metadata extraction
>> utility from CDA. Document submission is one of the biggest
>> shortcomings of the Bridge and is something we hope to fix :)

>> Thanks for your questions and hope this helps!
>> -Matt



>> Sarah Knoop wrote:
>>> To further clarify ... the automatic metadata extraction routine is ony
>>> implemented for HL7 CDA R2 based documents.
>>>
>>> - Sarah
>>>
>>> Sarah Knoop wrote:
>>>> Hi Jesse,
>>>>
>>>> Glad the presentation went well for you yesterday. Please feel free to
>>>> continue to ask those lingering questions here and we'll do our best
>>>> to clarify for the benefit of all.
>>>>
>>>> I'll get Matt to respond to #1. For #2 - we wanted to enable a
>>>> simplified API for users. The submission process and the composition
>>>> of XDS Metadata can get very complex very quickly. The title you have
>>>> in your document (be it CDA, XDS-SD, whatever) will be preserved in
>>>> the document. The OHF bridge will then run the document through an
>>>> automatic metadata extraction routine that will populate additional
>>>> metadata, like title, author, that it can obtain from your document.
>>>> POJOs can utilize this feature too. It keeps the info in the document
>>>> and the info in the metadata consistent ... and you don't have to lift
>>>> a finger :-) Then, the bridge will send all this information (in
>>>> addition to the metadata you provide) to the XDS Registry.
>>>>
>>>> We are in the process of creating alternate API for the OHF Bridge
>>>> that will allow Bridge users, who are more IHE savvy and want to do
>>>> more sophisticated submissions, to compose their own metadata. But ...
>>>> we don't anticipate, at this time, to have that API ready for North
>>>> America Connectation 2008. Perhaps by EU Connectathon 2008.
>>>>
>>>> Hope this clarifies,
>>>> - Sarah
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Jesse Pangburn wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> First I want to thank you guys for your presentation on OHF yesterday
>>>>> at the Workshop. I'm sorry I had to dash out early to catch a
>>>>> flight, I scheduled it thinking people would just be goofing off by
>>>>> that time in the afternoon- wish I had known the OHF stuff was going
>>>>> to be going on at that time :-(
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, I have a couple questions.
>>>>> 1. Why no support for doc/lit style web services? WSI (which IBM is
>>>>> a part of) recommends doc/lit for best interoperability. Is it just
>>>>> the choice of platform, Axis? My platform only supports being a
>>>>> consumer of doc/lit web services, which is why I'm asking. For our
>>>>> own usage, I tried reconfiguring the server-config.wsdd to use the
>>>>> 'style="wrapped"' mode. It does then give you a doc/lit WSDL, but
>>>>> the web service's reply messages don't conform to the WSDL- wrong
>>>>> element names, wrong namespaces, etc. I found some patches for Axis
>>>>> that aren't approved yet, but which got me 90% of the way to fixing
>>>>> this problem (since I've never used Axis before and didn't have a
>>>>> clue where to start), but still returned XML that didn't quite
>>>>> validate against the schema. Anyway, by reading the code in the
>>>>> patches I figured out the last 10% enough to patch Axis to return XML
>>>>> that validates against the schema- at least for the OHF Bridge. I
>>>>> put one little hardcoding in there, since as a complete Axis noob I
>>>>> don't know how to retrieve a certain namespace from the
>>>>> server-config.wsdd. But with the right entry in server-config.wsdd
>>>>> (to match the hardcoding), it works perfectly. For this, I just
>>>>> patched the Axis jar and copied it into the bundle. I only have the
>>>>> OHF bundles building properly in eclipse, not Axis and the other
>>>>> bundles.
>>>>>
>>>>> I can supply the Axis.jar and the server-config.wsdd to go with it,
>>>>> if anyone else is unable to consume rpc/encoded services. Since
>>>>> that's probably a very small group, I suspect I'm probably the only
>>>>> one here that needs this- but thought I'd ask about future built-in
>>>>> support for doc/lit anyway.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. There is no document title parameter in the Bridge when you
>>>>> submit a document. I thought this was a field that users would want
>>>>> to be using, so I was surprised it was missing. It's in the POJOs,
>>>>> and I've looked at the Bridge code so it seems like it should be easy
>>>>> to add the title as a parameter. I was just wondering if it was left
>>>>> out intentionally, or just due to very busy schedules. I haven't
>>>>> fixed it myself due to just that very thing :-)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I had another question, but can't remember right now. Also, I just
>>>>> wanted to say thanks again for creating this and laying out the code
>>>>> so that it's very easy to follow what's going on and make changes as
>>>>> needed.
>>>>>
>>>>> thanks,
>>>>> Jesse
>>>>>
Re: doc/lit and document titles [message #38834 is a reply to message #38602] Tue, 11 December 2007 13:03 Go to previous message
Jesse Pangburn is currently offline Jesse Pangburn
Messages: 166
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi All,
Takeo tried my patch under the impression that it provides plain doc/lit
support, it does not. As my previous message states (not clearly enough),
my patch supports "doc/lit wrapped" only. I was under the (apparently
mistaken) impression that when people say "doc/lit" they typically mean
"doc/lit wrapped". So this post is just to clarify in case I've left
anyone else confused.

thanks,
Jesse

Jesse Pangburn wrote:

> Hi Takeo,
> I have a patch to the Axis used in the bridge that is used to provide
> doc/lit wrapped interface as it's the only kind that my tools support. I
> made the patch myself (cobbled together from some patches posted on the
> web that I modified to make work here) and I know almost nothing about
> Axis so it's not perfect- not even close. It seems to work on all the web
> services in the bridge except for the getRhios- there's some types of
> arrays there and some namespaces that seem to screw it up. But if you can
> live without that operation, you're welcome to try my patch.

> The bridge comes with Axis 1.3 for receiving the web service requests. I
> put my patch on Axis 1.4 FINAL, but it seems to work with the bridge. If
> you want to try it, send me a private email to jesse dot pangburn at
> quovadx dot com. Email addresses here in normal form show up with the
> company name xxxxx'd out: jesse.pangburn@quovadx.com.

> thanks,
> Jesse

> Takeo Satomi wrote:

>> Matthew,

>> So what if I see any error with doc/lit messaging? Should I post it to
>> the bugzilla? Actually these days I've been trying to use a SOAP library
>> which supports only doc/lit style but never made it successfull. Or
>> maybe I should wait until Connectathon ends as you must be terribly busy
>> with preparation for it.

>> Regards,
>> Takeo Satomi

>> Matthew Davis wrote:

>>> Jesse,

>>> This is an excellent question about doc/lit vs. RPC. I don't have a
>>> good answer for the initial case because it wasn't really my decision.
>>> But, as of recent, there's really only one reason that we've stayed with
>>> RPC and that is - for some people already using the Bridge, regenerating
>>> their WSDL proxies for document-style Web service won't be possible / easy.

>>> Touching more on what Sarah has mentioned below, we're definitely
>>> looking at new APIs for the OHF Bridge and all will be doc/lit. We will
>>> also remove the RPC requirement on the current API. We're debating
>>> internally which Web service engine to use... Axis2 / XFire(now Apache
>>> CXF) / etc.

>>> We envision making them more IHE savvy - e.g. exposing the raw OHF XDS
>>> API - SDOs over EMF. Another example would be a proxy engine for people
>>> who can compose their own IHE transaction (HL7 v2.x/v3 messages, ebXML,
>>> etc) but want to do some middle layer postprocessing - a good example
>>> would be handling mutual TLS authentication.

>>> The question on document title, that comes off the metadata extraction
>>> utility from CDA. Document submission is one of the biggest
>>> shortcomings of the Bridge and is something we hope to fix :)

>>> Thanks for your questions and hope this helps!
>>> -Matt



>>> Sarah Knoop wrote:
>>>> To further clarify ... the automatic metadata extraction routine is ony
>>>> implemented for HL7 CDA R2 based documents.
>>>>
>>>> - Sarah
>>>>
>>>> Sarah Knoop wrote:
>>>>> Hi Jesse,
>>>>>
>>>>> Glad the presentation went well for you yesterday. Please feel free to
>>>>> continue to ask those lingering questions here and we'll do our best
>>>>> to clarify for the benefit of all.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'll get Matt to respond to #1. For #2 - we wanted to enable a
>>>>> simplified API for users. The submission process and the composition
>>>>> of XDS Metadata can get very complex very quickly. The title you have
>>>>> in your document (be it CDA, XDS-SD, whatever) will be preserved in
>>>>> the document. The OHF bridge will then run the document through an
>>>>> automatic metadata extraction routine that will populate additional
>>>>> metadata, like title, author, that it can obtain from your document.
>>>>> POJOs can utilize this feature too. It keeps the info in the document
>>>>> and the info in the metadata consistent ... and you don't have to lift
>>>>> a finger :-) Then, the bridge will send all this information (in
>>>>> addition to the metadata you provide) to the XDS Registry.
>>>>>
>>>>> We are in the process of creating alternate API for the OHF Bridge
>>>>> that will allow Bridge users, who are more IHE savvy and want to do
>>>>> more sophisticated submissions, to compose their own metadata. But ...
>>>>> we don't anticipate, at this time, to have that API ready for North
>>>>> America Connectation 2008. Perhaps by EU Connectathon 2008.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hope this clarifies,
>>>>> - Sarah
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Jesse Pangburn wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>> First I want to thank you guys for your presentation on OHF yesterday
>>>>>> at the Workshop. I'm sorry I had to dash out early to catch a
>>>>>> flight, I scheduled it thinking people would just be goofing off by
>>>>>> that time in the afternoon- wish I had known the OHF stuff was going
>>>>>> to be going on at that time :-(
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyway, I have a couple questions.
>>>>>> 1. Why no support for doc/lit style web services? WSI (which IBM is
>>>>>> a part of) recommends doc/lit for best interoperability. Is it just
>>>>>> the choice of platform, Axis? My platform only supports being a
>>>>>> consumer of doc/lit web services, which is why I'm asking. For our
>>>>>> own usage, I tried reconfiguring the server-config.wsdd to use the
>>>>>> 'style="wrapped"' mode. It does then give you a doc/lit WSDL, but
>>>>>> the web service's reply messages don't conform to the WSDL- wrong
>>>>>> element names, wrong namespaces, etc. I found some patches for Axis
>>>>>> that aren't approved yet, but which got me 90% of the way to fixing
>>>>>> this problem (since I've never used Axis before and didn't have a
>>>>>> clue where to start), but still returned XML that didn't quite
>>>>>> validate against the schema. Anyway, by reading the code in the
>>>>>> patches I figured out the last 10% enough to patch Axis to return XML
>>>>>> that validates against the schema- at least for the OHF Bridge. I
>>>>>> put one little hardcoding in there, since as a complete Axis noob I
>>>>>> don't know how to retrieve a certain namespace from the
>>>>>> server-config.wsdd. But with the right entry in server-config.wsdd
>>>>>> (to match the hardcoding), it works perfectly. For this, I just
>>>>>> patched the Axis jar and copied it into the bundle. I only have the
>>>>>> OHF bundles building properly in eclipse, not Axis and the other
>>>>>> bundles.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I can supply the Axis.jar and the server-config.wsdd to go with it,
>>>>>> if anyone else is unable to consume rpc/encoded services. Since
>>>>>> that's probably a very small group, I suspect I'm probably the only
>>>>>> one here that needs this- but thought I'd ask about future built-in
>>>>>> support for doc/lit anyway.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2. There is no document title parameter in the Bridge when you
>>>>>> submit a document. I thought this was a field that users would want
>>>>>> to be using, so I was surprised it was missing. It's in the POJOs,
>>>>>> and I've looked at the Bridge code so it seems like it should be easy
>>>>>> to add the title as a parameter. I was just wondering if it was left
>>>>>> out intentionally, or just due to very busy schedules. I haven't
>>>>>> fixed it myself due to just that very thing :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I had another question, but can't remember right now. Also, I just
>>>>>> wanted to say thanks again for creating this and laying out the code
>>>>>> so that it's very easy to follow what's going on and make changes as
>>>>>> needed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> thanks,
>>>>>> Jesse
>>>>>>
Re: doc/lit and document titles [message #581632 is a reply to message #33964] Fri, 05 October 2007 19:30 Go to previous message
No real name is currently offline No real name
Messages: 292
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi Jesse,

Glad the presentation went well for you yesterday. Please feel free to
continue to ask those lingering questions here and we'll do our best to
clarify for the benefit of all.

I'll get Matt to respond to #1. For #2 - we wanted to enable a
simplified API for users. The submission process and the composition of
XDS Metadata can get very complex very quickly. The title you have in
your document (be it CDA, XDS-SD, whatever) will be preserved in the
document. The OHF bridge will then run the document through an automatic
metadata extraction routine that will populate additional metadata, like
title, author, that it can obtain from your document. POJOs can utilize
this feature too. It keeps the info in the document and the info in the
metadata consistent ... and you don't have to lift a finger :-) Then,
the bridge will send all this information (in addition to the metadata
you provide) to the XDS Registry.

We are in the process of creating alternate API for the OHF Bridge that
will allow Bridge users, who are more IHE savvy and want to do more
sophisticated submissions, to compose their own metadata. But ... we
don't anticipate, at this time, to have that API ready for North America
Connectation 2008. Perhaps by EU Connectathon 2008.

Hope this clarifies,
- Sarah


Jesse Pangburn wrote:
> Hi,
> First I want to thank you guys for your presentation on OHF yesterday at
> the Workshop. I'm sorry I had to dash out early to catch a flight, I
> scheduled it thinking people would just be goofing off by that time in
> the afternoon- wish I had known the OHF stuff was going to be going on
> at that time :-(
>
> Anyway, I have a couple questions.
> 1. Why no support for doc/lit style web services? WSI (which IBM is a
> part of) recommends doc/lit for best interoperability. Is it just the
> choice of platform, Axis? My platform only supports being a consumer of
> doc/lit web services, which is why I'm asking.
> For our own usage, I tried reconfiguring the server-config.wsdd to use
> the 'style="wrapped"' mode. It does then give you a doc/lit WSDL, but
> the web service's reply messages don't conform to the WSDL- wrong
> element names, wrong namespaces, etc. I found some patches for Axis
> that aren't approved yet, but which got me 90% of the way to fixing this
> problem (since I've never used Axis before and didn't have a clue where
> to start), but still returned XML that didn't quite validate against the
> schema. Anyway, by reading the code in the patches I figured out the
> last 10% enough to patch Axis to return XML that validates against the
> schema- at least for the OHF Bridge. I put one little hardcoding in
> there, since as a complete Axis noob I don't know how to retrieve a
> certain namespace from the server-config.wsdd. But with the right entry
> in server-config.wsdd (to match the hardcoding), it works perfectly.
> For this, I just patched the Axis jar and copied it into the bundle. I
> only have the OHF bundles building properly in eclipse, not Axis and the
> other bundles.
>
> I can supply the Axis.jar and the server-config.wsdd to go with it, if
> anyone else is unable to consume rpc/encoded services. Since that's
> probably a very small group, I suspect I'm probably the only one here
> that needs this- but thought I'd ask about future built-in support for
> doc/lit anyway.
>
> 2. There is no document title parameter in the Bridge when you submit a
> document. I thought this was a field that users would want to be using,
> so I was surprised it was missing. It's in the POJOs, and I've looked
> at the Bridge code so it seems like it should be easy to add the title
> as a parameter. I was just wondering if it was left out intentionally,
> or just due to very busy schedules. I haven't fixed it myself due to
> just that very thing :-)
>
>
> I had another question, but can't remember right now. Also, I just
> wanted to say thanks again for creating this and laying out the code so
> that it's very easy to follow what's going on and make changes as needed.
>
> thanks,
> Jesse
>
Re: doc/lit and document titles [message #581659 is a reply to message #34135] Fri, 05 October 2007 19:34 Go to previous message
No real name is currently offline No real name
Messages: 292
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
To further clarify ... the automatic metadata extraction routine is ony
implemented for HL7 CDA R2 based documents.

- Sarah

Sarah Knoop wrote:
> Hi Jesse,
>
> Glad the presentation went well for you yesterday. Please feel free to
> continue to ask those lingering questions here and we'll do our best to
> clarify for the benefit of all.
>
> I'll get Matt to respond to #1. For #2 - we wanted to enable a
> simplified API for users. The submission process and the composition of
> XDS Metadata can get very complex very quickly. The title you have in
> your document (be it CDA, XDS-SD, whatever) will be preserved in the
> document. The OHF bridge will then run the document through an automatic
> metadata extraction routine that will populate additional metadata, like
> title, author, that it can obtain from your document. POJOs can utilize
> this feature too. It keeps the info in the document and the info in the
> metadata consistent ... and you don't have to lift a finger :-) Then,
> the bridge will send all this information (in addition to the metadata
> you provide) to the XDS Registry.
>
> We are in the process of creating alternate API for the OHF Bridge that
> will allow Bridge users, who are more IHE savvy and want to do more
> sophisticated submissions, to compose their own metadata. But ... we
> don't anticipate, at this time, to have that API ready for North America
> Connectation 2008. Perhaps by EU Connectathon 2008.
>
> Hope this clarifies,
> - Sarah
>
>
> Jesse Pangburn wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>> First I want to thank you guys for your presentation on OHF yesterday
>> at the Workshop. I'm sorry I had to dash out early to catch a flight,
>> I scheduled it thinking people would just be goofing off by that time
>> in the afternoon- wish I had known the OHF stuff was going to be going
>> on at that time :-(
>>
>> Anyway, I have a couple questions.
>> 1. Why no support for doc/lit style web services? WSI (which IBM is
>> a part of) recommends doc/lit for best interoperability. Is it just
>> the choice of platform, Axis? My platform only supports being a
>> consumer of doc/lit web services, which is why I'm asking. For our own
>> usage, I tried reconfiguring the server-config.wsdd to use the
>> 'style="wrapped"' mode. It does then give you a doc/lit WSDL, but the
>> web service's reply messages don't conform to the WSDL- wrong element
>> names, wrong namespaces, etc. I found some patches for Axis that
>> aren't approved yet, but which got me 90% of the way to fixing this
>> problem (since I've never used Axis before and didn't have a clue
>> where to start), but still returned XML that didn't quite validate
>> against the schema. Anyway, by reading the code in the patches I
>> figured out the last 10% enough to patch Axis to return XML that
>> validates against the schema- at least for the OHF Bridge. I put one
>> little hardcoding in there, since as a complete Axis noob I don't know
>> how to retrieve a certain namespace from the server-config.wsdd. But
>> with the right entry in server-config.wsdd (to match the hardcoding),
>> it works perfectly. For this, I just patched the Axis jar and copied
>> it into the bundle. I only have the OHF bundles building properly in
>> eclipse, not Axis and the other bundles.
>>
>> I can supply the Axis.jar and the server-config.wsdd to go with it, if
>> anyone else is unable to consume rpc/encoded services. Since that's
>> probably a very small group, I suspect I'm probably the only one here
>> that needs this- but thought I'd ask about future built-in support for
>> doc/lit anyway.
>>
>> 2. There is no document title parameter in the Bridge when you submit
>> a document. I thought this was a field that users would want to be
>> using, so I was surprised it was missing. It's in the POJOs, and I've
>> looked at the Bridge code so it seems like it should be easy to add
>> the title as a parameter. I was just wondering if it was left out
>> intentionally, or just due to very busy schedules. I haven't fixed it
>> myself due to just that very thing :-)
>>
>>
>> I had another question, but can't remember right now. Also, I just
>> wanted to say thanks again for creating this and laying out the code
>> so that it's very easy to follow what's going on and make changes as
>> needed.
>>
>> thanks,
>> Jesse
>>
Re: doc/lit and document titles [message #581693 is a reply to message #34169] Mon, 08 October 2007 12:19 Go to previous message
Matthew Davis
Messages: 269
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Jesse,

This is an excellent question about doc/lit vs. RPC. I don't have a
good answer for the initial case because it wasn't really my decision.
But, as of recent, there's really only one reason that we've stayed with
RPC and that is - for some people already using the Bridge, regenerating
their WSDL proxies for document-style Web service won't be possible / easy.

Touching more on what Sarah has mentioned below, we're definitely
looking at new APIs for the OHF Bridge and all will be doc/lit. We will
also remove the RPC requirement on the current API. We're debating
internally which Web service engine to use... Axis2 / XFire(now Apache
CXF) / etc.

We envision making them more IHE savvy - e.g. exposing the raw OHF XDS
API - SDOs over EMF. Another example would be a proxy engine for people
who can compose their own IHE transaction (HL7 v2.x/v3 messages, ebXML,
etc) but want to do some middle layer postprocessing - a good example
would be handling mutual TLS authentication.

The question on document title, that comes off the metadata extraction
utility from CDA. Document submission is one of the biggest
shortcomings of the Bridge and is something we hope to fix :)

Thanks for your questions and hope this helps!
-Matt



Sarah Knoop wrote:
> To further clarify ... the automatic metadata extraction routine is ony
> implemented for HL7 CDA R2 based documents.
>
> - Sarah
>
> Sarah Knoop wrote:
>> Hi Jesse,
>>
>> Glad the presentation went well for you yesterday. Please feel free to
>> continue to ask those lingering questions here and we'll do our best
>> to clarify for the benefit of all.
>>
>> I'll get Matt to respond to #1. For #2 - we wanted to enable a
>> simplified API for users. The submission process and the composition
>> of XDS Metadata can get very complex very quickly. The title you have
>> in your document (be it CDA, XDS-SD, whatever) will be preserved in
>> the document. The OHF bridge will then run the document through an
>> automatic metadata extraction routine that will populate additional
>> metadata, like title, author, that it can obtain from your document.
>> POJOs can utilize this feature too. It keeps the info in the document
>> and the info in the metadata consistent ... and you don't have to lift
>> a finger :-) Then, the bridge will send all this information (in
>> addition to the metadata you provide) to the XDS Registry.
>>
>> We are in the process of creating alternate API for the OHF Bridge
>> that will allow Bridge users, who are more IHE savvy and want to do
>> more sophisticated submissions, to compose their own metadata. But ...
>> we don't anticipate, at this time, to have that API ready for North
>> America Connectation 2008. Perhaps by EU Connectathon 2008.
>>
>> Hope this clarifies,
>> - Sarah
>>
>>
>> Jesse Pangburn wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>> First I want to thank you guys for your presentation on OHF yesterday
>>> at the Workshop. I'm sorry I had to dash out early to catch a
>>> flight, I scheduled it thinking people would just be goofing off by
>>> that time in the afternoon- wish I had known the OHF stuff was going
>>> to be going on at that time :-(
>>>
>>> Anyway, I have a couple questions.
>>> 1. Why no support for doc/lit style web services? WSI (which IBM is
>>> a part of) recommends doc/lit for best interoperability. Is it just
>>> the choice of platform, Axis? My platform only supports being a
>>> consumer of doc/lit web services, which is why I'm asking. For our
>>> own usage, I tried reconfiguring the server-config.wsdd to use the
>>> 'style="wrapped"' mode. It does then give you a doc/lit WSDL, but
>>> the web service's reply messages don't conform to the WSDL- wrong
>>> element names, wrong namespaces, etc. I found some patches for Axis
>>> that aren't approved yet, but which got me 90% of the way to fixing
>>> this problem (since I've never used Axis before and didn't have a
>>> clue where to start), but still returned XML that didn't quite
>>> validate against the schema. Anyway, by reading the code in the
>>> patches I figured out the last 10% enough to patch Axis to return XML
>>> that validates against the schema- at least for the OHF Bridge. I
>>> put one little hardcoding in there, since as a complete Axis noob I
>>> don't know how to retrieve a certain namespace from the
>>> server-config.wsdd. But with the right entry in server-config.wsdd
>>> (to match the hardcoding), it works perfectly. For this, I just
>>> patched the Axis jar and copied it into the bundle. I only have the
>>> OHF bundles building properly in eclipse, not Axis and the other
>>> bundles.
>>>
>>> I can supply the Axis.jar and the server-config.wsdd to go with it,
>>> if anyone else is unable to consume rpc/encoded services. Since
>>> that's probably a very small group, I suspect I'm probably the only
>>> one here that needs this- but thought I'd ask about future built-in
>>> support for doc/lit anyway.
>>>
>>> 2. There is no document title parameter in the Bridge when you
>>> submit a document. I thought this was a field that users would want
>>> to be using, so I was surprised it was missing. It's in the POJOs,
>>> and I've looked at the Bridge code so it seems like it should be easy
>>> to add the title as a parameter. I was just wondering if it was left
>>> out intentionally, or just due to very busy schedules. I haven't
>>> fixed it myself due to just that very thing :-)
>>>
>>>
>>> I had another question, but can't remember right now. Also, I just
>>> wanted to say thanks again for creating this and laying out the code
>>> so that it's very easy to follow what's going on and make changes as
>>> needed.
>>>
>>> thanks,
>>> Jesse
>>>
Re: doc/lit and document titles [message #581738 is a reply to message #34234] Mon, 08 October 2007 15:02 Go to previous message
Jesse Pangburn is currently offline Jesse Pangburn
Messages: 166
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi Sarah and Matthew,
Thanks for the well thought out and thorough replies!

The meta data extraction thing makes a lot of sense. I was wondering why
there was all this hardcoding in the bridge related to CDA R2 when I was
skipping through the code, now it's clear. I just haven't submitted any
CDA R2 docs to the bridge yet, I've just sent plain old xml and text docs
for my testing purposes. So I'm looking forward to trying this out with a
CDA and seeing it grab the title/author/whatever.

> But, as of recent, there's really only one reason that we've stayed with
> RPC and that is - for some people already using the Bridge, regenerating
> their WSDL proxies for document-style Web service won't be possible / easy.
Regarding this, on the bridge that I've modified to have doc/lit,
rpc/encoded is still there. In the server-config.wsdd you are not
restricted to just one service, I simply copied the RPC service and then
gave it a different name ("ohf-bridge-wrapped" instead of "ohf-bridge")
and set the 'style="wrapped"' attribute on it. So the original
"ohf-bridge" service is running unchanged and still works fine from your
PHP sample app, and the new service "ohf-bridge-wrapped" is happily
running along side it and accepting doc/lit wrapped style service
requests. There's no reason not to have both, you just have to have a
separate service- so existing users will be unaffected. Just to be clear,
this is a slightly modified Axis 1.4 that I'm using.

> utility from CDA. Document submission is one of the biggest
> shortcomings of the Bridge and is something we hope to fix :)
I found the document submission method to be pretty easy to use, though
it'll be important to support more document types. Things like PDFs will
require that the method have parameters like title and such since you
won't be able to extract it from the PDF. However, there's a method
called "WrapInCdaAndSubmitDocument" whose parameters are very confusing-
there are parameters like the url to the document. That's the
repository's job to generate that URL, I would not know that at submission
time. There are a few other parameters like that- and it's very likely
that I'm just completely new to CDA and IHE and missing something, but to
me they didn't make sense. But fortunately the "SubmitDocument" method is
VERY easy to use.

thanks!
Jesse

Matthew Davis wrote:

> Jesse,

> This is an excellent question about doc/lit vs. RPC. I don't have a
> good answer for the initial case because it wasn't really my decision.
> But, as of recent, there's really only one reason that we've stayed with
> RPC and that is - for some people already using the Bridge, regenerating
> their WSDL proxies for document-style Web service won't be possible / easy.

> Touching more on what Sarah has mentioned below, we're definitely
> looking at new APIs for the OHF Bridge and all will be doc/lit. We will
> also remove the RPC requirement on the current API. We're debating
> internally which Web service engine to use... Axis2 / XFire(now Apache
> CXF) / etc.

> We envision making them more IHE savvy - e.g. exposing the raw OHF XDS
> API - SDOs over EMF. Another example would be a proxy engine for people
> who can compose their own IHE transaction (HL7 v2.x/v3 messages, ebXML,
> etc) but want to do some middle layer postprocessing - a good example
> would be handling mutual TLS authentication.

> The question on document title, that comes off the metadata extraction
> utility from CDA. Document submission is one of the biggest
> shortcomings of the Bridge and is something we hope to fix :)

> Thanks for your questions and hope this helps!
> -Matt



> Sarah Knoop wrote:
>> To further clarify ... the automatic metadata extraction routine is ony
>> implemented for HL7 CDA R2 based documents.
>>
>> - Sarah
>>
>> Sarah Knoop wrote:
>>> Hi Jesse,
>>>
>>> Glad the presentation went well for you yesterday. Please feel free to
>>> continue to ask those lingering questions here and we'll do our best
>>> to clarify for the benefit of all.
>>>
>>> I'll get Matt to respond to #1. For #2 - we wanted to enable a
>>> simplified API for users. The submission process and the composition
>>> of XDS Metadata can get very complex very quickly. The title you have
>>> in your document (be it CDA, XDS-SD, whatever) will be preserved in
>>> the document. The OHF bridge will then run the document through an
>>> automatic metadata extraction routine that will populate additional
>>> metadata, like title, author, that it can obtain from your document.
>>> POJOs can utilize this feature too. It keeps the info in the document
>>> and the info in the metadata consistent ... and you don't have to lift
>>> a finger :-) Then, the bridge will send all this information (in
>>> addition to the metadata you provide) to the XDS Registry.
>>>
>>> We are in the process of creating alternate API for the OHF Bridge
>>> that will allow Bridge users, who are more IHE savvy and want to do
>>> more sophisticated submissions, to compose their own metadata. But ...
>>> we don't anticipate, at this time, to have that API ready for North
>>> America Connectation 2008. Perhaps by EU Connectathon 2008.
>>>
>>> Hope this clarifies,
>>> - Sarah
>>>
>>>
>>> Jesse Pangburn wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>> First I want to thank you guys for your presentation on OHF yesterday
>>>> at the Workshop. I'm sorry I had to dash out early to catch a
>>>> flight, I scheduled it thinking people would just be goofing off by
>>>> that time in the afternoon- wish I had known the OHF stuff was going
>>>> to be going on at that time :-(
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, I have a couple questions.
>>>> 1. Why no support for doc/lit style web services? WSI (which IBM is
>>>> a part of) recommends doc/lit for best interoperability. Is it just
>>>> the choice of platform, Axis? My platform only supports being a
>>>> consumer of doc/lit web services, which is why I'm asking. For our
>>>> own usage, I tried reconfiguring the server-config.wsdd to use the
>>>> 'style="wrapped"' mode. It does then give you a doc/lit WSDL, but
>>>> the web service's reply messages don't conform to the WSDL- wrong
>>>> element names, wrong namespaces, etc. I found some patches for Axis
>>>> that aren't approved yet, but which got me 90% of the way to fixing
>>>> this problem (since I've never used Axis before and didn't have a
>>>> clue where to start), but still returned XML that didn't quite
>>>> validate against the schema. Anyway, by reading the code in the
>>>> patches I figured out the last 10% enough to patch Axis to return XML
>>>> that validates against the schema- at least for the OHF Bridge. I
>>>> put one little hardcoding in there, since as a complete Axis noob I
>>>> don't know how to retrieve a certain namespace from the
>>>> server-config.wsdd. But with the right entry in server-config.wsdd
>>>> (to match the hardcoding), it works perfectly. For this, I just
>>>> patched the Axis jar and copied it into the bundle. I only have the
>>>> OHF bundles building properly in eclipse, not Axis and the other
>>>> bundles.
>>>>
>>>> I can supply the Axis.jar and the server-config.wsdd to go with it,
>>>> if anyone else is unable to consume rpc/encoded services. Since
>>>> that's probably a very small group, I suspect I'm probably the only
>>>> one here that needs this- but thought I'd ask about future built-in
>>>> support for doc/lit anyway.
>>>>
>>>> 2. There is no document title parameter in the Bridge when you
>>>> submit a document. I thought this was a field that users would want
>>>> to be using, so I was surprised it was missing. It's in the POJOs,
>>>> and I've looked at the Bridge code so it seems like it should be easy
>>>> to add the title as a parameter. I was just wondering if it was left
>>>> out intentionally, or just due to very busy schedules. I haven't
>>>> fixed it myself due to just that very thing :-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I had another question, but can't remember right now. Also, I just
>>>> wanted to say thanks again for creating this and laying out the code
>>>> so that it's very easy to follow what's going on and make changes as
>>>> needed.
>>>>
>>>> thanks,
>>>> Jesse
>>>>
Re: doc/lit and document titles [message #583663 is a reply to message #34234] Thu, 06 December 2007 04:11 Go to previous message
Takeo Satomi is currently offline Takeo Satomi
Messages: 32
Registered: July 2009
Member
Matthew,

So what if I see any error with doc/lit messaging? Should I post it to
the bugzilla? Actually these days I've been trying to use a SOAP library
which supports only doc/lit style but never made it successfull. Or
maybe I should wait until Connectathon ends as you must be terribly busy
with preparation for it.

Regards,
Takeo Satomi

Matthew Davis wrote:

> Jesse,

> This is an excellent question about doc/lit vs. RPC. I don't have a
> good answer for the initial case because it wasn't really my decision.
> But, as of recent, there's really only one reason that we've stayed with
> RPC and that is - for some people already using the Bridge, regenerating
> their WSDL proxies for document-style Web service won't be possible / easy.

> Touching more on what Sarah has mentioned below, we're definitely
> looking at new APIs for the OHF Bridge and all will be doc/lit. We will
> also remove the RPC requirement on the current API. We're debating
> internally which Web service engine to use... Axis2 / XFire(now Apache
> CXF) / etc.

> We envision making them more IHE savvy - e.g. exposing the raw OHF XDS
> API - SDOs over EMF. Another example would be a proxy engine for people
> who can compose their own IHE transaction (HL7 v2.x/v3 messages, ebXML,
> etc) but want to do some middle layer postprocessing - a good example
> would be handling mutual TLS authentication.

> The question on document title, that comes off the metadata extraction
> utility from CDA. Document submission is one of the biggest
> shortcomings of the Bridge and is something we hope to fix :)

> Thanks for your questions and hope this helps!
> -Matt



> Sarah Knoop wrote:
>> To further clarify ... the automatic metadata extraction routine is ony
>> implemented for HL7 CDA R2 based documents.
>>
>> - Sarah
>>
>> Sarah Knoop wrote:
>>> Hi Jesse,
>>>
>>> Glad the presentation went well for you yesterday. Please feel free to
>>> continue to ask those lingering questions here and we'll do our best
>>> to clarify for the benefit of all.
>>>
>>> I'll get Matt to respond to #1. For #2 - we wanted to enable a
>>> simplified API for users. The submission process and the composition
>>> of XDS Metadata can get very complex very quickly. The title you have
>>> in your document (be it CDA, XDS-SD, whatever) will be preserved in
>>> the document. The OHF bridge will then run the document through an
>>> automatic metadata extraction routine that will populate additional
>>> metadata, like title, author, that it can obtain from your document.
>>> POJOs can utilize this feature too. It keeps the info in the document
>>> and the info in the metadata consistent ... and you don't have to lift
>>> a finger :-) Then, the bridge will send all this information (in
>>> addition to the metadata you provide) to the XDS Registry.
>>>
>>> We are in the process of creating alternate API for the OHF Bridge
>>> that will allow Bridge users, who are more IHE savvy and want to do
>>> more sophisticated submissions, to compose their own metadata. But ...
>>> we don't anticipate, at this time, to have that API ready for North
>>> America Connectation 2008. Perhaps by EU Connectathon 2008.
>>>
>>> Hope this clarifies,
>>> - Sarah
>>>
>>>
>>> Jesse Pangburn wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>> First I want to thank you guys for your presentation on OHF yesterday
>>>> at the Workshop. I'm sorry I had to dash out early to catch a
>>>> flight, I scheduled it thinking people would just be goofing off by
>>>> that time in the afternoon- wish I had known the OHF stuff was going
>>>> to be going on at that time :-(
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, I have a couple questions.
>>>> 1. Why no support for doc/lit style web services? WSI (which IBM is
>>>> a part of) recommends doc/lit for best interoperability. Is it just
>>>> the choice of platform, Axis? My platform only supports being a
>>>> consumer of doc/lit web services, which is why I'm asking. For our
>>>> own usage, I tried reconfiguring the server-config.wsdd to use the
>>>> 'style="wrapped"' mode. It does then give you a doc/lit WSDL, but
>>>> the web service's reply messages don't conform to the WSDL- wrong
>>>> element names, wrong namespaces, etc. I found some patches for Axis
>>>> that aren't approved yet, but which got me 90% of the way to fixing
>>>> this problem (since I've never used Axis before and didn't have a
>>>> clue where to start), but still returned XML that didn't quite
>>>> validate against the schema. Anyway, by reading the code in the
>>>> patches I figured out the last 10% enough to patch Axis to return XML
>>>> that validates against the schema- at least for the OHF Bridge. I
>>>> put one little hardcoding in there, since as a complete Axis noob I
>>>> don't know how to retrieve a certain namespace from the
>>>> server-config.wsdd. But with the right entry in server-config.wsdd
>>>> (to match the hardcoding), it works perfectly. For this, I just
>>>> patched the Axis jar and copied it into the bundle. I only have the
>>>> OHF bundles building properly in eclipse, not Axis and the other
>>>> bundles.
>>>>
>>>> I can supply the Axis.jar and the server-config.wsdd to go with it,
>>>> if anyone else is unable to consume rpc/encoded services. Since
>>>> that's probably a very small group, I suspect I'm probably the only
>>>> one here that needs this- but thought I'd ask about future built-in
>>>> support for doc/lit anyway.
>>>>
>>>> 2. There is no document title parameter in the Bridge when you
>>>> submit a document. I thought this was a field that users would want
>>>> to be using, so I was surprised it was missing. It's in the POJOs,
>>>> and I've looked at the Bridge code so it seems like it should be easy
>>>> to add the title as a parameter. I was just wondering if it was left
>>>> out intentionally, or just due to very busy schedules. I haven't
>>>> fixed it myself due to just that very thing :-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I had another question, but can't remember right now. Also, I just
>>>> wanted to say thanks again for creating this and laying out the code
>>>> so that it's very easy to follow what's going on and make changes as
>>>> needed.
>>>>
>>>> thanks,
>>>> Jesse
>>>>
Re: doc/lit and document titles [message #583690 is a reply to message #38503] Thu, 06 December 2007 11:34 Go to previous message
Matthew Davis
Messages: 269
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi Takeo,

Yes, please go ahead and post a bug. No guarantees I'll get to it
immediately, but if it's a "Connectathon breaker" for you, then I can
give it a higher priority. Either way, it'll be good to be in Bugzilla.

Thanks again,
-Matt


Takeo Satomi wrote:
> Matthew,
>
> So what if I see any error with doc/lit messaging? Should I post it to
> the bugzilla? Actually these days I've been trying to use a SOAP
> library which supports only doc/lit style but never made it
> successfull. Or maybe I should wait until Connectathon ends as you
> must be terribly busy with preparation for it.
>
> Regards,
> Takeo Satomi
>
> Matthew Davis wrote:
>
>> Jesse,
>
>> This is an excellent question about doc/lit vs. RPC. I don't have a
>> good answer for the initial case because it wasn't really my decision.
>> But, as of recent, there's really only one reason that we've stayed
>> with RPC and that is - for some people already using the Bridge,
>> regenerating their WSDL proxies for document-style Web service won't
>> be possible / easy.
>
>> Touching more on what Sarah has mentioned below, we're definitely
>> looking at new APIs for the OHF Bridge and all will be doc/lit. We
>> will also remove the RPC requirement on the current API. We're
>> debating internally which Web service engine to use... Axis2 /
>> XFire(now Apache CXF) / etc.
>
>> We envision making them more IHE savvy - e.g. exposing the raw OHF XDS
>> API - SDOs over EMF. Another example would be a proxy engine for
>> people who can compose their own IHE transaction (HL7 v2.x/v3
>> messages, ebXML, etc) but want to do some middle layer postprocessing
>> - a good example would be handling mutual TLS authentication.
>
>> The question on document title, that comes off the metadata extraction
>> utility from CDA. Document submission is one of the biggest
>> shortcomings of the Bridge and is something we hope to fix :)
>
>> Thanks for your questions and hope this helps!
>> -Matt
>
>
>
>> Sarah Knoop wrote:
>>> To further clarify ... the automatic metadata extraction routine is
>>> ony implemented for HL7 CDA R2 based documents.
>>>
>>> - Sarah
>>>
>>> Sarah Knoop wrote:
>>>> Hi Jesse,
>>>>
>>>> Glad the presentation went well for you yesterday. Please feel free
>>>> to continue to ask those lingering questions here and we'll do our
>>>> best to clarify for the benefit of all.
>>>>
>>>> I'll get Matt to respond to #1. For #2 - we wanted to enable a
>>>> simplified API for users. The submission process and the composition
>>>> of XDS Metadata can get very complex very quickly. The title you
>>>> have in your document (be it CDA, XDS-SD, whatever) will be
>>>> preserved in the document. The OHF bridge will then run the document
>>>> through an automatic metadata extraction routine that will populate
>>>> additional metadata, like title, author, that it can obtain from
>>>> your document. POJOs can utilize this feature too. It keeps the info
>>>> in the document and the info in the metadata consistent ... and you
>>>> don't have to lift a finger :-) Then, the bridge will send all this
>>>> information (in addition to the metadata you provide) to the XDS
>>>> Registry.
>>>>
>>>> We are in the process of creating alternate API for the OHF Bridge
>>>> that will allow Bridge users, who are more IHE savvy and want to do
>>>> more sophisticated submissions, to compose their own metadata. But
>>>> ... we don't anticipate, at this time, to have that API ready for
>>>> North America Connectation 2008. Perhaps by EU Connectathon 2008.
>>>>
>>>> Hope this clarifies,
>>>> - Sarah
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Jesse Pangburn wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> First I want to thank you guys for your presentation on OHF
>>>>> yesterday at the Workshop. I'm sorry I had to dash out early to
>>>>> catch a flight, I scheduled it thinking people would just be
>>>>> goofing off by that time in the afternoon- wish I had known the OHF
>>>>> stuff was going to be going on at that time :-(
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, I have a couple questions.
>>>>> 1. Why no support for doc/lit style web services? WSI (which IBM
>>>>> is a part of) recommends doc/lit for best interoperability. Is it
>>>>> just the choice of platform, Axis? My platform only supports being
>>>>> a consumer of doc/lit web services, which is why I'm asking. For
>>>>> our own usage, I tried reconfiguring the server-config.wsdd to use
>>>>> the 'style="wrapped"' mode. It does then give you a doc/lit WSDL,
>>>>> but the web service's reply messages don't conform to the WSDL-
>>>>> wrong element names, wrong namespaces, etc. I found some patches
>>>>> for Axis that aren't approved yet, but which got me 90% of the way
>>>>> to fixing this problem (since I've never used Axis before and
>>>>> didn't have a clue where to start), but still returned XML that
>>>>> didn't quite validate against the schema. Anyway, by reading the
>>>>> code in the patches I figured out the last 10% enough to patch Axis
>>>>> to return XML that validates against the schema- at least for the
>>>>> OHF Bridge. I put one little hardcoding in there, since as a
>>>>> complete Axis noob I don't know how to retrieve a certain namespace
>>>>> from the server-config.wsdd. But with the right entry in
>>>>> server-config.wsdd (to match the hardcoding), it works perfectly.
>>>>> For this, I just patched the Axis jar and copied it into the
>>>>> bundle. I only have the OHF bundles building properly in eclipse,
>>>>> not Axis and the other bundles.
>>>>>
>>>>> I can supply the Axis.jar and the server-config.wsdd to go with it,
>>>>> if anyone else is unable to consume rpc/encoded services. Since
>>>>> that's probably a very small group, I suspect I'm probably the only
>>>>> one here that needs this- but thought I'd ask about future built-in
>>>>> support for doc/lit anyway.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. There is no document title parameter in the Bridge when you
>>>>> submit a document. I thought this was a field that users would
>>>>> want to be using, so I was surprised it was missing. It's in the
>>>>> POJOs, and I've looked at the Bridge code so it seems like it
>>>>> should be easy to add the title as a parameter. I was just
>>>>> wondering if it was left out intentionally, or just due to very
>>>>> busy schedules. I haven't fixed it myself due to just that very
>>>>> thing :-)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I had another question, but can't remember right now. Also, I just
>>>>> wanted to say thanks again for creating this and laying out the
>>>>> code so that it's very easy to follow what's going on and make
>>>>> changes as needed.
>>>>>
>>>>> thanks,
>>>>> Jesse
>>>>>
>
>
Re: doc/lit and document titles [message #583708 is a reply to message #38503] Thu, 06 December 2007 13:36 Go to previous message
Jesse Pangburn is currently offline Jesse Pangburn
Messages: 166
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi Takeo,
I have a patch to the Axis used in the bridge that is used to provide
doc/lit wrapped interface as it's the only kind that my tools support. I
made the patch myself (cobbled together from some patches posted on the
web that I modified to make work here) and I know almost nothing about
Axis so it's not perfect- not even close. It seems to work on all the web
services in the bridge except for the getRhios- there's some types of
arrays there and some namespaces that seem to screw it up. But if you can
live without that operation, you're welcome to try my patch.

The bridge comes with Axis 1.3 for receiving the web service requests. I
put my patch on Axis 1.4 FINAL, but it seems to work with the bridge. If
you want to try it, send me a private email to jesse dot pangburn at
quovadx dot com. Email addresses here in normal form show up with the
company name xxxxx'd out: jesse.pangburn@quovadx.com.

thanks,
Jesse

Takeo Satomi wrote:

> Matthew,

> So what if I see any error with doc/lit messaging? Should I post it to
> the bugzilla? Actually these days I've been trying to use a SOAP library
> which supports only doc/lit style but never made it successfull. Or
> maybe I should wait until Connectathon ends as you must be terribly busy
> with preparation for it.

> Regards,
> Takeo Satomi

> Matthew Davis wrote:

>> Jesse,

>> This is an excellent question about doc/lit vs. RPC. I don't have a
>> good answer for the initial case because it wasn't really my decision.
>> But, as of recent, there's really only one reason that we've stayed with
>> RPC and that is - for some people already using the Bridge, regenerating
>> their WSDL proxies for document-style Web service won't be possible / easy.

>> Touching more on what Sarah has mentioned below, we're definitely
>> looking at new APIs for the OHF Bridge and all will be doc/lit. We will
>> also remove the RPC requirement on the current API. We're debating
>> internally which Web service engine to use... Axis2 / XFire(now Apache
>> CXF) / etc.

>> We envision making them more IHE savvy - e.g. exposing the raw OHF XDS
>> API - SDOs over EMF. Another example would be a proxy engine for people
>> who can compose their own IHE transaction (HL7 v2.x/v3 messages, ebXML,
>> etc) but want to do some middle layer postprocessing - a good example
>> would be handling mutual TLS authentication.

>> The question on document title, that comes off the metadata extraction
>> utility from CDA. Document submission is one of the biggest
>> shortcomings of the Bridge and is something we hope to fix :)

>> Thanks for your questions and hope this helps!
>> -Matt



>> Sarah Knoop wrote:
>>> To further clarify ... the automatic metadata extraction routine is ony
>>> implemented for HL7 CDA R2 based documents.
>>>
>>> - Sarah
>>>
>>> Sarah Knoop wrote:
>>>> Hi Jesse,
>>>>
>>>> Glad the presentation went well for you yesterday. Please feel free to
>>>> continue to ask those lingering questions here and we'll do our best
>>>> to clarify for the benefit of all.
>>>>
>>>> I'll get Matt to respond to #1. For #2 - we wanted to enable a
>>>> simplified API for users. The submission process and the composition
>>>> of XDS Metadata can get very complex very quickly. The title you have
>>>> in your document (be it CDA, XDS-SD, whatever) will be preserved in
>>>> the document. The OHF bridge will then run the document through an
>>>> automatic metadata extraction routine that will populate additional
>>>> metadata, like title, author, that it can obtain from your document.
>>>> POJOs can utilize this feature too. It keeps the info in the document
>>>> and the info in the metadata consistent ... and you don't have to lift
>>>> a finger :-) Then, the bridge will send all this information (in
>>>> addition to the metadata you provide) to the XDS Registry.
>>>>
>>>> We are in the process of creating alternate API for the OHF Bridge
>>>> that will allow Bridge users, who are more IHE savvy and want to do
>>>> more sophisticated submissions, to compose their own metadata. But ...
>>>> we don't anticipate, at this time, to have that API ready for North
>>>> America Connectation 2008. Perhaps by EU Connectathon 2008.
>>>>
>>>> Hope this clarifies,
>>>> - Sarah
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Jesse Pangburn wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> First I want to thank you guys for your presentation on OHF yesterday
>>>>> at the Workshop. I'm sorry I had to dash out early to catch a
>>>>> flight, I scheduled it thinking people would just be goofing off by
>>>>> that time in the afternoon- wish I had known the OHF stuff was going
>>>>> to be going on at that time :-(
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, I have a couple questions.
>>>>> 1. Why no support for doc/lit style web services? WSI (which IBM is
>>>>> a part of) recommends doc/lit for best interoperability. Is it just
>>>>> the choice of platform, Axis? My platform only supports being a
>>>>> consumer of doc/lit web services, which is why I'm asking. For our
>>>>> own usage, I tried reconfiguring the server-config.wsdd to use the
>>>>> 'style="wrapped"' mode. It does then give you a doc/lit WSDL, but
>>>>> the web service's reply messages don't conform to the WSDL- wrong
>>>>> element names, wrong namespaces, etc. I found some patches for Axis
>>>>> that aren't approved yet, but which got me 90% of the way to fixing
>>>>> this problem (since I've never used Axis before and didn't have a
>>>>> clue where to start), but still returned XML that didn't quite
>>>>> validate against the schema. Anyway, by reading the code in the
>>>>> patches I figured out the last 10% enough to patch Axis to return XML
>>>>> that validates against the schema- at least for the OHF Bridge. I
>>>>> put one little hardcoding in there, since as a complete Axis noob I
>>>>> don't know how to retrieve a certain namespace from the
>>>>> server-config.wsdd. But with the right entry in server-config.wsdd
>>>>> (to match the hardcoding), it works perfectly. For this, I just
>>>>> patched the Axis jar and copied it into the bundle. I only have the
>>>>> OHF bundles building properly in eclipse, not Axis and the other
>>>>> bundles.
>>>>>
>>>>> I can supply the Axis.jar and the server-config.wsdd to go with it,
>>>>> if anyone else is unable to consume rpc/encoded services. Since
>>>>> that's probably a very small group, I suspect I'm probably the only
>>>>> one here that needs this- but thought I'd ask about future built-in
>>>>> support for doc/lit anyway.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. There is no document title parameter in the Bridge when you
>>>>> submit a document. I thought this was a field that users would want
>>>>> to be using, so I was surprised it was missing. It's in the POJOs,
>>>>> and I've looked at the Bridge code so it seems like it should be easy
>>>>> to add the title as a parameter. I was just wondering if it was left
>>>>> out intentionally, or just due to very busy schedules. I haven't
>>>>> fixed it myself due to just that very thing :-)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I had another question, but can't remember right now. Also, I just
>>>>> wanted to say thanks again for creating this and laying out the code
>>>>> so that it's very easy to follow what's going on and make changes as
>>>>> needed.
>>>>>
>>>>> thanks,
>>>>> Jesse
>>>>>
Re: doc/lit and document titles [message #583806 is a reply to message #38602] Tue, 11 December 2007 13:03 Go to previous message
Jesse Pangburn is currently offline Jesse Pangburn
Messages: 166
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi All,
Takeo tried my patch under the impression that it provides plain doc/lit
support, it does not. As my previous message states (not clearly enough),
my patch supports "doc/lit wrapped" only. I was under the (apparently
mistaken) impression that when people say "doc/lit" they typically mean
"doc/lit wrapped". So this post is just to clarify in case I've left
anyone else confused.

thanks,
Jesse

Jesse Pangburn wrote:

> Hi Takeo,
> I have a patch to the Axis used in the bridge that is used to provide
> doc/lit wrapped interface as it's the only kind that my tools support. I
> made the patch myself (cobbled together from some patches posted on the
> web that I modified to make work here) and I know almost nothing about
> Axis so it's not perfect- not even close. It seems to work on all the web
> services in the bridge except for the getRhios- there's some types of
> arrays there and some namespaces that seem to screw it up. But if you can
> live without that operation, you're welcome to try my patch.

> The bridge comes with Axis 1.3 for receiving the web service requests. I
> put my patch on Axis 1.4 FINAL, but it seems to work with the bridge. If
> you want to try it, send me a private email to jesse dot pangburn at
> quovadx dot com. Email addresses here in normal form show up with the
> company name xxxxx'd out: jesse.pangburn@quovadx.com.

> thanks,
> Jesse

> Takeo Satomi wrote:

>> Matthew,

>> So what if I see any error with doc/lit messaging? Should I post it to
>> the bugzilla? Actually these days I've been trying to use a SOAP library
>> which supports only doc/lit style but never made it successfull. Or
>> maybe I should wait until Connectathon ends as you must be terribly busy
>> with preparation for it.

>> Regards,
>> Takeo Satomi

>> Matthew Davis wrote:

>>> Jesse,

>>> This is an excellent question about doc/lit vs. RPC. I don't have a
>>> good answer for the initial case because it wasn't really my decision.
>>> But, as of recent, there's really only one reason that we've stayed with
>>> RPC and that is - for some people already using the Bridge, regenerating
>>> their WSDL proxies for document-style Web service won't be possible / easy.

>>> Touching more on what Sarah has mentioned below, we're definitely
>>> looking at new APIs for the OHF Bridge and all will be doc/lit. We will
>>> also remove the RPC requirement on the current API. We're debating
>>> internally which Web service engine to use... Axis2 / XFire(now Apache
>>> CXF) / etc.

>>> We envision making them more IHE savvy - e.g. exposing the raw OHF XDS
>>> API - SDOs over EMF. Another example would be a proxy engine for people
>>> who can compose their own IHE transaction (HL7 v2.x/v3 messages, ebXML,
>>> etc) but want to do some middle layer postprocessing - a good example
>>> would be handling mutual TLS authentication.

>>> The question on document title, that comes off the metadata extraction
>>> utility from CDA. Document submission is one of the biggest
>>> shortcomings of the Bridge and is something we hope to fix :)

>>> Thanks for your questions and hope this helps!
>>> -Matt



>>> Sarah Knoop wrote:
>>>> To further clarify ... the automatic metadata extraction routine is ony
>>>> implemented for HL7 CDA R2 based documents.
>>>>
>>>> - Sarah
>>>>
>>>> Sarah Knoop wrote:
>>>>> Hi Jesse,
>>>>>
>>>>> Glad the presentation went well for you yesterday. Please feel free to
>>>>> continue to ask those lingering questions here and we'll do our best
>>>>> to clarify for the benefit of all.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'll get Matt to respond to #1. For #2 - we wanted to enable a
>>>>> simplified API for users. The submission process and the composition
>>>>> of XDS Metadata can get very complex very quickly. The title you have
>>>>> in your document (be it CDA, XDS-SD, whatever) will be preserved in
>>>>> the document. The OHF bridge will then run the document through an
>>>>> automatic metadata extraction routine that will populate additional
>>>>> metadata, like title, author, that it can obtain from your document.
>>>>> POJOs can utilize this feature too. It keeps the info in the document
>>>>> and the info in the metadata consistent ... and you don't have to lift
>>>>> a finger :-) Then, the bridge will send all this information (in
>>>>> addition to the metadata you provide) to the XDS Registry.
>>>>>
>>>>> We are in the process of creating alternate API for the OHF Bridge
>>>>> that will allow Bridge users, who are more IHE savvy and want to do
>>>>> more sophisticated submissions, to compose their own metadata. But ...
>>>>> we don't anticipate, at this time, to have that API ready for North
>>>>> America Connectation 2008. Perhaps by EU Connectathon 2008.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hope this clarifies,
>>>>> - Sarah
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Jesse Pangburn wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>> First I want to thank you guys for your presentation on OHF yesterday
>>>>>> at the Workshop. I'm sorry I had to dash out early to catch a
>>>>>> flight, I scheduled it thinking people would just be goofing off by
>>>>>> that time in the afternoon- wish I had known the OHF stuff was going
>>>>>> to be going on at that time :-(
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyway, I have a couple questions.
>>>>>> 1. Why no support for doc/lit style web services? WSI (which IBM is
>>>>>> a part of) recommends doc/lit for best interoperability. Is it just
>>>>>> the choice of platform, Axis? My platform only supports being a
>>>>>> consumer of doc/lit web services, which is why I'm asking. For our
>>>>>> own usage, I tried reconfiguring the server-config.wsdd to use the
>>>>>> 'style="wrapped"' mode. It does then give you a doc/lit WSDL, but
>>>>>> the web service's reply messages don't conform to the WSDL- wrong
>>>>>> element names, wrong namespaces, etc. I found some patches for Axis
>>>>>> that aren't approved yet, but which got me 90% of the way to fixing
>>>>>> this problem (since I've never used Axis before and didn't have a
>>>>>> clue where to start), but still returned XML that didn't quite
>>>>>> validate against the schema. Anyway, by reading the code in the
>>>>>> patches I figured out the last 10% enough to patch Axis to return XML
>>>>>> that validates against the schema- at least for the OHF Bridge. I
>>>>>> put one little hardcoding in there, since as a complete Axis noob I
>>>>>> don't know how to retrieve a certain namespace from the
>>>>>> server-config.wsdd. But with the right entry in server-config.wsdd
>>>>>> (to match the hardcoding), it works perfectly. For this, I just
>>>>>> patched the Axis jar and copied it into the bundle. I only have the
>>>>>> OHF bundles building properly in eclipse, not Axis and the other
>>>>>> bundles.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I can supply the Axis.jar and the server-config.wsdd to go with it,
>>>>>> if anyone else is unable to consume rpc/encoded services. Since
>>>>>> that's probably a very small group, I suspect I'm probably the only
>>>>>> one here that needs this- but thought I'd ask about future built-in
>>>>>> support for doc/lit anyway.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2. There is no document title parameter in the Bridge when you
>>>>>> submit a document. I thought this was a field that users would want
>>>>>> to be using, so I was surprised it was missing. It's in the POJOs,
>>>>>> and I've looked at the Bridge code so it seems like it should be easy
>>>>>> to add the title as a parameter. I was just wondering if it was left
>>>>>> out intentionally, or just due to very busy schedules. I haven't
>>>>>> fixed it myself due to just that very thing :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I had another question, but can't remember right now. Also, I just
>>>>>> wanted to say thanks again for creating this and laying out the code
>>>>>> so that it's very easy to follow what's going on and make changes as
>>>>>> needed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> thanks,
>>>>>> Jesse
>>>>>>
Previous Topic:non stored query error against NIST server
Next Topic:New updates, several fixes, MESA Update
Goto Forum:
  


Current Time: Sat Apr 19 18:38:37 EDT 2014

Powered by FUDForum. Page generated in 0.06430 seconds