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Callisto & SDK's [message #33620] Tue, 25 April 2006 18:51 Go to next message
Erkki Lindpere is currently offline Erkki Lindpere
Messages: 90
Registered: July 2009
Member
Hi!

I think the Callisto release train is a great idea and hope it will be a
huge success. But how is one supposed to get the various SDK's when the
runtimes have been installed from the Callisto update site?

At the very least I expect I should be able to get the SDK's from the
update sites that are automatically added by the projects installed from
the Callisto discovery site. Currently this is not so, but is it going
to be with the final release?

Just minutes ago I wanted to upgrade to the RC1a version and:
1. installed the Eclipse Platform runtime (without JDK & PDE).
2. installed several projects from Callisto Discovery site (JDK, PDE,
TPTP and all it's requirements, including WTP and BIRT)
3. now I wanted to get the SDK's for TPTP and the Eclipse Platform, but
when searching for new features from ALL of the automatically added
update sites (from SWITCHmirror), the only SDK's found that seemed to be
for the correct version were BIRT & DTP (Other update sites showed
features for Eclipse 3.1 based versions -- but would a relatively new
Eclipse user even realise that? And I assume Callisto's purpose is also
to bring new users.)

So the only option to get all the SDK's is to download them manually? I
don't like this at all: it forces me to mix manual installs with ones
managed by Eclipse (that is, if I want to take advantage of the Callisto
Discovery site and not download everything manually to begin with) and
what's more, actually comb through the downloaded SDK's to not copy the
features & plugins that have already been installed as part of the
runtimes... This feels like the worst way of installing Eclipse than
ever been before.

Erkki
Re: Callisto & SDK's [message #33688 is a reply to message #33620] Wed, 26 April 2006 14:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Randy D. Smith is currently offline Randy D. Smith
Messages: 394
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Erkki Lindpere wrote:
> Hi!
>
> I think the Callisto release train is a great idea and hope it will be a
> huge success. But how is one supposed to get the various SDK's when the
> runtimes have been installed from the Callisto update site?
>
> At the very least I expect I should be able to get the SDK's from the
> update sites that are automatically added by the projects installed from
> the Callisto discovery site. Currently this is not so, but is it going
> to be with the final release?
>
> Just minutes ago I wanted to upgrade to the RC1a version and:
> 1. installed the Eclipse Platform runtime (without JDK & PDE).
> 2. installed several projects from Callisto Discovery site (JDK, PDE,
> TPTP and all it's requirements, including WTP and BIRT)
> 3. now I wanted to get the SDK's for TPTP and the Eclipse Platform, but
> when searching for new features from ALL of the automatically added
> update sites (from SWITCHmirror), the only SDK's found that seemed to be
> for the correct version were BIRT & DTP (Other update sites showed
> features for Eclipse 3.1 based versions -- but would a relatively new
> Eclipse user even realise that? And I assume Callisto's purpose is also
> to bring new users.)
>
> So the only option to get all the SDK's is to download them manually? I
> don't like this at all: it forces me to mix manual installs with ones
> managed by Eclipse (that is, if I want to take advantage of the Callisto
> Discovery site and not download everything manually to begin with) and
> what's more, actually comb through the downloaded SDK's to not copy the
> features & plugins that have already been installed as part of the
> runtimes... This feels like the worst way of installing Eclipse than
> ever been before.
>
> Erkki

Let me offer a hearty "hear hear" to your concern. I think that for
Callisto to be successful the complaint expressed here will have to be
addressed.

Erkki, you might want to add your name to the cc list for bugzilla
#138244 < https://bugs.eclipse.org/bugs/show_bug.cgi?id=138244 >. There
I expressed concern about how a platform download results in a
Help=>Contents that gives the Workbench User Guide whose first page says
"(You can get the Welcome view back at any time by selecting <Help =>
Welcome>.)" This despite the fact that Help=>Welcome does not exist on
the platform download, or that download with all of Callisto installed.
So, in essence, my bugzilla is the tip of the iceberg you've identified
above.

--
RDS

Randy D. Smith randy (dot) d (dot) smith (at) intel (dot) com
Eclipse TPTP Committer, Platform Proj (data collection/agent controller)
Re: Callisto & SDK's [message #33716 is a reply to message #33620] Wed, 26 April 2006 15:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
David Williams is currently offline David Williams
Messages: 696
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
On Tue, 25 Apr 2006 14:51:39 -0400, Erkki Lindpere <villane@gmail.com>
wrote:

>
> I think the Callisto release train is a great idea and hope it will be a
> huge success. But how is one supposed to get the various SDK's when the
> runtimes have been installed from the Callisto update site?
>

The observed limitation is a "point in time" limitation, since Callisto
"releases"
are made up (usually) from project's "interim" update sites,
they are not "found" automatically by the implanted update sites,
which most projects specify as their permeant (near future) update sites.

So, yes, the workflow is supposed to be

1. install (potentially many) features from Callisto
in addition to the actual function,
this provides the implanted Update URL's for the features
installed
2. go back to specific project sites as desired,
and as required over time, to get "extras" such as SDK/Source for
desired projects
(its assumed the desired "sdk" features would be some subset of
total installed features, so, this hopefully would reduce
both foot
print and band width).

But I agree, at this point in time, it makes it hard to test to be sure
the designed workflow works correctly.
To "test" the workflow, after installing from Callisto Discovery site, you
can "manually" add the interim sites to your update manger, such as

http://download.eclipse.org/eclipse/updates/3.2milestones/si te.xml

I would be GREAT to have more people testing this workflow, so, I will
publish all the "interim" sites later today in
http://wiki.eclipse.org/index.php/Callisto_Coordinated_Updat e_Sites

Thanks,
Re: Callisto & SDK's [message #33750 is a reply to message #33716] Wed, 26 April 2006 20:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Erkki Lindpere is currently offline Erkki Lindpere
Messages: 90
Registered: July 2009
Member
> I would be GREAT to have more people testing this workflow, so, I will
> publish all the "interim" sites later today in
> http://wiki.eclipse.org/index.php/Callisto_Coordinated_Updat e_Sites
>

Thanx, this was helpful. Sadly, TPTP is not currently providing SDK's
through the site listed (
http://download.eclipse.org/tptp/updates/4.2milestones/site. xml ).
Should I file a bug report about this? Against TPTP?

Erkki
Re: Callisto & SDK's [message #33784 is a reply to message #33750] Thu, 27 April 2006 05:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
David Williams is currently offline David Williams
Messages: 696
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
On Wed, 26 Apr 2006 16:23:25 -0400, Erkki Lindpere <villane@gmail.com>
wrote:


>
> Thanx, this was helpful. Sadly, TPTP is not currently providing SDK's
> through the site listed (
> http://download.eclipse.org/tptp/updates/4.2milestones/site. xml ).
> Should I file a bug report about this? Against TPTP?
>
> Erkki

Sure, as long as you let them know you're really interested or need their
interim SDKs, I'm sure
they'd be glad to know somone was "missing" it. (Of course, I'm not sure
if they
can actually fix it any time soon, for update manager, ... I'm not that
familar with their internal
build/update/zipping processes ... but bug reports made in good faith
never hurt.

And, I'm not even sure, maybe there's some other site to get it from? You
might hunt around on their home page or down load pages and see if they
say.
Re: Callisto & SDK's [message #34131 is a reply to message #33784] Fri, 28 April 2006 19:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Randy D. Smith is currently offline Randy D. Smith
Messages: 394
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
David Williams wrote:
> On Wed, 26 Apr 2006 16:23:25 -0400, Erkki Lindpere <villane@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> Thanx, this was helpful. Sadly, TPTP is not currently providing SDK's
>> through the site listed (
>> http://download.eclipse.org/tptp/updates/4.2milestones/site. xml ).
>> Should I file a bug report about this? Against TPTP?
>>
>> Erkki
>
> Sure, as long as you let them know you're really interested or need their
> interim SDKs, I'm sure
> they'd be glad to know somone was "missing" it. (Of course, I'm not
> sure if they
> can actually fix it any time soon, for update manager, ... I'm not that
> familar with their internal
> build/update/zipping processes ... but bug reports made in good faith
> never hurt.
>
> And, I'm not even sure, maybe there's some other site to get it from?
> You might hunt around on their home page or down load pages and see if
> they say.

The download pages are on the Download link off the main TPTP page; it's
at < http://www.eclipse.org/tptp/home/downloads/downloads.php >. Pick
the release you want from the top tab, then you'll find Runtimes and
SDKs listed in parallel.

You're right that TPTP is not quite up-to-date on the Update Manager
usage... that's one of the things I was looking forward to the Callisto
release changing... frankly I don't know what the plans are for SDK
access there (though I should!).

I just noticed over in eclipse.tptp a similar question with the
suggestion from a knowledgeable person that a bugzilla be filed also, so
I'm sure they're welcome. Again, just make sure you prominently indicate
that you're Update Management access to the SDKs.
--
RDS

Randy D. Smith randy (dot) d (dot) smith (at) intel (dot) com
Eclipse TPTP Committer, Platform Proj (data collection/agent controller)
Re: Callisto & SDK's [message #34165 is a reply to message #33620] Mon, 01 May 2006 15:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Fred Grott is currently offline Fred Grott
Messages: 96
Registered: July 2009
Member
I agree Callisto needs some tweaking...

At one point on the Callisto wiki page it was mentioned that there would be a separate Callisto discovery site for both Eclipse SDKS and project SDKs..

Has progress been made on that option?
Re: Callisto & SDK's [message #34267 is a reply to message #34165] Wed, 03 May 2006 20:07 Go to previous message
Mike Milinkovich is currently offline Mike Milinkovich
Messages: 258
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Sure thing. Check out http://www.eclipse.org/callisto/


"Fred Grott" <fred.grott@gmail.com> wrote
>I agree Callisto needs some tweaking...
>
> At one point on the Callisto wiki page it was mentioned that there would
> be a separate Callisto discovery site for both Eclipse SDKS and project
> SDKs..
>
> Has progress been made on that option?
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