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How it works [message #2756] Mon, 10 July 2006 22:35 Go to next message
Eclipse UserFriend
Originally posted by: grahame.jivamedical.com

Hi

This is a great project idea. I really approve.
It impacts strongly on the OHF project - we
have quite a lot of dependencies.

One thing that's not clear from the project charter
is exactly how it works. It ways that the orbit
project doesn't do development - so how does the
actual development happen? If I have dependency on
a particular jar, I have to work with [some folks?]
to clarify what I am actually doing, and then [I?]
commit the agreed package to the orbit bundles?

Grahame
Re: How it works [message #2793 is a reply to message #2756] Tue, 11 July 2006 04:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
David Williams is currently offline David WilliamsFriend
Messages: 701
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 18:35:51 -0400, Grahame Grieve
<grahame@jivamedical.com> wrote:


> One thing that's not clear from the project charter
> is exactly how it works. It ways that the orbit
> project doesn't do development - so how does the actual development
> happen? If I have dependency on
> a particular jar, I have to work with [some folks?]
> to clarify what I am actually doing, and then [I?]
> commit the agreed package to the orbit bundles?
>

Yep, that's pretty much it. (packages could be contributed, as
well, by non-committers, eventually, if necessary, by the usual method
of attachments to bugzillas).

The important thing to remember, though, is this orbit project is
only for "third party" packages (meaning "non-eclipse"). Which I mention
only because I don't know if that's the only dependancy complication you in
Open Health Care would have. And that's why the charter says "no
developement" ...
its sort of a "packaging only" project.

The context of this proposal is recent experiences with the Callisto
release. One obvious problem that came up first was that several Eclipse
projects were
"re-shipping" the same third party packages/jars. At a minimum, this
causes "bloat". At worst, there were some projects that were actually
shipping
similar but different versions of the same third party packages, which may
have had
slightly different content, which has the
potential to cause conflicts or untested installations.

So, that situation was improved, in Callisto release, by agreement
betweeen projects
of which would project would provide the "callisto version" of the third
party packages.
But the next obvious
problem was that even then there's some differences about the way the
different projects
were "building" or "getting" these dependancies.

So, this orbit project has
the modest goal of "centralizing" the solutions to these very specific
problems.
In some sense, doing what the Callisto projects did, but in one place,
hopefully coming up
with some "best practices", etc. in the process.

Hope this helps
Re: How it works [message #2936 is a reply to message #2793] Tue, 11 July 2006 12:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse UserFriend
Originally posted by: grahame.jivamedical.com

thanks

> Yep, that's pretty much it. (packages could be contributed, as
> well, by non-committers, eventually, if necessary, by the usual method
> of attachments to bugzillas).

it's an unusual project if committers generally have commit rights.

Anyhow, the current OHF dependency list, all of which appear to be
candidates for this project, is:

org.apache.axis
org.apache.log4j
org.apache.commons
org.xmlpull.v1

There will be lot's more - that's only what we know, and the xmlpull
package is still awaiting EMO approval

> So, this orbit project has the modest goal of "centralizing" the
> solutions to these very specific problems.

yep, thoroughly approve of that.

Grahame
Re: How it works [message #4109 is a reply to message #2936] Wed, 12 July 2006 17:34 Go to previous message
Eclipse UserFriend
Originally posted by: jeff_mcaffer.REMOVE.ca.ibm.com

Grahame Grieve wrote:
> thanks
>
>> Yep, that's pretty much it. (packages could be contributed, as
>> well, by non-committers, eventually, if necessary, by the usual method
>> of attachments to bugzillas).
>
> it's an unusual project if committers generally have commit rights.

The idea is that teams that have the need to use a lib would be doing
the work to bundle so why not contribute that to Orbit. To facilitate
this it would be convenient for them to be committers on Orbit. We
don't want to end up with hundreds of people but, for example, it might
be one or two per project. This is somewhat unusual but not prohibited
if you consider that someone coming to add a lib is coming with an
initial contribution.

> Anyhow, the current OHF dependency list, all of which appear to be
> candidates for this project, is:
>
> org.apache.axis
> org.apache.log4j
> org.apache.commons
> org.xmlpull.v1

Great. Thanks. I will start pulling together a list of the initial
libs/bundles.

Jeff
Re: How it works [message #560754 is a reply to message #2756] Tue, 11 July 2006 04:38 Go to previous message
David Williams is currently offline David WilliamsFriend
Messages: 701
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 18:35:51 -0400, Grahame Grieve
<grahame@jivamedical.com> wrote:


> One thing that's not clear from the project charter
> is exactly how it works. It ways that the orbit
> project doesn't do development - so how does the actual development
> happen? If I have dependency on
> a particular jar, I have to work with [some folks?]
> to clarify what I am actually doing, and then [I?]
> commit the agreed package to the orbit bundles?
>

Yep, that's pretty much it. (packages could be contributed, as
well, by non-committers, eventually, if necessary, by the usual method
of attachments to bugzillas).

The important thing to remember, though, is this orbit project is
only for "third party" packages (meaning "non-eclipse"). Which I mention
only because I don't know if that's the only dependancy complication you in
Open Health Care would have. And that's why the charter says "no
developement" ...
its sort of a "packaging only" project.

The context of this proposal is recent experiences with the Callisto
release. One obvious problem that came up first was that several Eclipse
projects were
"re-shipping" the same third party packages/jars. At a minimum, this
causes "bloat". At worst, there were some projects that were actually
shipping
similar but different versions of the same third party packages, which may
have had
slightly different content, which has the
potential to cause conflicts or untested installations.

So, that situation was improved, in Callisto release, by agreement
betweeen projects
of which would project would provide the "callisto version" of the third
party packages.
But the next obvious
problem was that even then there's some differences about the way the
different projects
were "building" or "getting" these dependancies.

So, this orbit project has
the modest goal of "centralizing" the solutions to these very specific
problems.
In some sense, doing what the Callisto projects did, but in one place,
hopefully coming up
with some "best practices", etc. in the process.

Hope this helps
Re: How it works [message #560845 is a reply to message #2793] Tue, 11 July 2006 12:06 Go to previous message
Grahame Grieve is currently offline Grahame GrieveFriend
Messages: 76
Registered: July 2009
Member
thanks

> Yep, that's pretty much it. (packages could be contributed, as
> well, by non-committers, eventually, if necessary, by the usual method
> of attachments to bugzillas).

it's an unusual project if committers generally have commit rights.

Anyhow, the current OHF dependency list, all of which appear to be
candidates for this project, is:

org.apache.axis
org.apache.log4j
org.apache.commons
org.xmlpull.v1

There will be lot's more - that's only what we know, and the xmlpull
package is still awaiting EMO approval

> So, this orbit project has the modest goal of "centralizing" the
> solutions to these very specific problems.

yep, thoroughly approve of that.

Grahame
Re: How it works [message #560994 is a reply to message #2936] Wed, 12 July 2006 17:34 Go to previous message
Jeff McAffer is currently offline Jeff McAfferFriend
Messages: 104
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Grahame Grieve wrote:
> thanks
>
>> Yep, that's pretty much it. (packages could be contributed, as
>> well, by non-committers, eventually, if necessary, by the usual method
>> of attachments to bugzillas).
>
> it's an unusual project if committers generally have commit rights.

The idea is that teams that have the need to use a lib would be doing
the work to bundle so why not contribute that to Orbit. To facilitate
this it would be convenient for them to be committers on Orbit. We
don't want to end up with hundreds of people but, for example, it might
be one or two per project. This is somewhat unusual but not prohibited
if you consider that someone coming to add a lib is coming with an
initial contribution.

> Anyhow, the current OHF dependency list, all of which appear to be
> candidates for this project, is:
>
> org.apache.axis
> org.apache.log4j
> org.apache.commons
> org.xmlpull.v1

Great. Thanks. I will start pulling together a list of the initial
libs/bundles.

Jeff
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