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Welcome to ORMF [message #2755] Wed, 20 February 2008 11:18 Go to next message
Joel Rosi-Schwartz is currently offline Joel Rosi-Schwartz
Messages: 624
Registered: July 2009
Location: London. England
Senior Member
I would like to take the opportunity to introduce Barbara and myself.
We have been working towards realising Useme (now part of ORMF) for
a few years. We take great pleasure at the opportunity to now have our
work incorporated officially into the Eclipse project.

We very much look forward to feedback from the community on the
proposal we have put forth on ORMF. There are a number of
opportunities for collaboration that we envision and we anticipate
having many fine recommendations for others being brought up for
discussion here. It is our goal to nurture and develop all potential
relationships; we embrace co-operation and collaboration with all
interested parties, be they contributors, supporters or users.

For more information please see:

- The proposal which is located at http://www.eclipse.org/
proposals/ormf/

- The articles on the Useme website located here https://
useme.dev.java.net/documentation/index.html

- The Etish website here, http://www.etish.org/

Thanks for visiting and we hope that you find this project interesting
and useful.

Cheers,
Joel & Barbara




--
Joel Rosi-Schwartz
Etish Limited [http://www.etish.org]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
^...^
/ o,o \ The proud parents of Useme
|) ::: (| The Open Requirements Management Tool
====w=w==== [https://useme.dev.java.net]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Re: Welcome to ORMF [message #2776 is a reply to message #2755] Mon, 25 February 2008 14:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Harm Sluiman is currently offline Harm Sluiman
Messages: 20
Registered: July 2009
Junior Member
Hi Joel. I understand you also pinged Paul Slauenwhite about mentoring and
he mentioned the project to me as well. Paul will be a good mentor if he has
time to accept.

It is an interesting project and reading through the proposal made me think
of various design questions, but one thing at a time ;-)

I think this is an interesting project and look forward to poking around in
it. It fits with the design mentality I have heard on this subject in the
past. As Paul may have told you, in Hyades (the TPTP predecessor) we have
places in our model to reference "motivators" which are intended to be
requirements or plan artifacts, and we did the 6 years ago when working on
the UML 2 Test Profile. So we have been waiting for you ;-)

I do have a couple of comments for you.

I think it will be key to make API of the artifacts you flow on the wire
between the client and server. Plus if you can keep that protocol truly
restful you will be building something for the future. The reference model
will also be critical since to get adoption you need to be able to reference
out to anything, but also be easily referenced. Persistent references are
never as easy as they sound, as you probably know ;-)

An Eclipse or RCP based client is a great start, but a browser client is
equally if not more valuable long term. I hate to say Web 2.0 and Ajax but
you know what I mean.

Also, there are no "standards" for requirements and defects etc. which are
in the end the data artifacts you will pass so if you can also find a way to
embrace or influence some W3C. OMG or ISO group to start defining a draft
which you provide the reference impl for you will be guaranteed a winner.

So my net is that you need to publish API in the artifact space even more
than for plugins, and declaring API is serious stuff so don't do it fast,
but do it well. (easy for me to say ;-)) It would be good if your proposal
highlighted some of your intentions in this space.

I also think it would be good if you can identify some other parties that
are going to collaborate with you day 1. This can only be a plus for the
project, but it will also address concerns some have about a potential code
dumping form one group to feed a private open source effort. I am sure this
is not your intent, but the community will appreciate seeing your commitment
to making sure this is not going to be the case.

When I have time to read the other links in the proposal document I may poke
you with some other feedback. In the meantime, perhaps we can hook up at
Eclipsecon.

Harm Sluiman
Re: Welcome to ORMF [message #2791 is a reply to message #2755] Mon, 25 February 2008 16:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: jkrause.innoopract.com

Hi Joel,

Just a few observations and questions:

Your development plan looks very ambitious, the terminology seems to be
mixed up. M(n) Releases are milestones, they provide the latest
functionality. RC(n) are release candidates, normally there is a feature
and api freeze before you publish a RC. This would leave you just 6
weeks for developing new functionality - not sure if this is intended.
You should name the deliveries either M(n) or RC(n).

How do you bridge the gap between textual representation and UML model?

Does everybody that wants to specify requirements need an Eclipse
installation? If yes, I think that this is highly problematic.

Are your server components already packaged in (OSGI) bundles? Why do
you require a JEE server?

Jochen



Joel Rosi-Schwartz wrote:
> I would like to take the opportunity to introduce Barbara and myself.
> We have been working towards realising Useme (now part of ORMF) for
> a few years. We take great pleasure at the opportunity to now have our
> work incorporated officially into the Eclipse project.
>
> We very much look forward to feedback from the community on the
> proposal we have put forth on ORMF. There are a number of
> opportunities for collaboration that we envision and we anticipate
> having many fine recommendations for others being brought up for
> discussion here. It is our goal to nurture and develop all potential
> relationships; we embrace co-operation and collaboration with all
> interested parties, be they contributors, supporters or users.
>
> For more information please see:
>
> - The proposal which is located at http://www.eclipse.org/
> proposals/ormf/
>
> - The articles on the Useme website located here https://
> useme.dev.java.net/documentation/index.html
>
> - The Etish website here, http://www.etish.org/
>
> Thanks for visiting and we hope that you find this project interesting
> and useful.
>
> Cheers,
> Joel & Barbara
>
>
>
>
Re: Welcome to ORMF [message #2808 is a reply to message #2755] Tue, 26 February 2008 18:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: neil.prestemon.sri.com

So far, from what I have read, (and from a recent "tour" of other
Requirements Management tools out there.) - this concept presents an
interesting innovation; (though, I agree, having Eclipse as a necessary
component might be a a barrier for some stakeholders - like the
non-technical side of things, the Marketing Requirements guys, etc.)

I really like the idea of having a way to link the tool you're creating
UML diagrams in, with a Requirements Management tool, and and being able
to link those artifacts to source code. SPARX can do the UML linkage
(between Enterprise Architect and RaQuest), Thoughtworks Mingle can link
Requirements to your SVN comments, but I don't really see anything else
out there that attempts to do it the way ORMF plans to. I'm very eager to
see how it all actually works!

Maybe there would be a way, through ORMF, to do the document generation in
Open Office for the non-technical stakeholders. Or the other elements of
Software Development Life Cycle management, like Test Management, can go
through a web interface to the J2EE backend.
Re: Welcome to ORMF [message #2827 is a reply to message #2755] Wed, 27 February 2008 10:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Richard Gronback is currently offline Richard Gronback
Messages: 605
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
An interesting proposal, and I look forward to seeing more at EclipseCon and
discussing the relationship with the Modeling project.

Building a long list of interested parties is a fine goal, although imho the
most likely path to success for a project of this nature and scope is to
have (at least) several dedicated resources. Hopefully, another member of
the Foundation will apply resources to help you out, particularly if ORMF is
to form the basis for a set of commercial requirements management tools.

You list OSEE as a possible collaborator, so just to help along the
discussion I've cc'd their newsgroup.

Best Regards,
Rich


On 2/20/08 11:18 AM, in article
5F810CB0-5D9F-4BA8-A63A-7870DF0E0432%Joel.Rosi-Schwartz@Etish.org, "Joel
Rosi-Schwartz" <Joel.Rosi-Schwartz@Etish.org> wrote:

> I would like to take the opportunity to introduce Barbara and myself.
> We have been working towards realising Useme (now part of ORMF) for
> a few years. We take great pleasure at the opportunity to now have our
> work incorporated officially into the Eclipse project.
>
> We very much look forward to feedback from the community on the
> proposal we have put forth on ORMF. There are a number of
> opportunities for collaboration that we envision and we anticipate
> having many fine recommendations for others being brought up for
> discussion here. It is our goal to nurture and develop all potential
> relationships; we embrace co-operation and collaboration with all
> interested parties, be they contributors, supporters or users.
>
> For more information please see:
>
> - The proposal which is located at http://www.eclipse.org/
> proposals/ormf/
>
> - The articles on the Useme website located here https://
> useme.dev.java.net/documentation/index.html
>
> - The Etish website here, http://www.etish.org/
>
> Thanks for visiting and we hope that you find this project interesting
> and useful.
>
> Cheers,
> Joel & Barbara
>
>
>
Re: Welcome to ORMF [message #2843 is a reply to message #2808] Wed, 27 February 2008 19:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: neil.prestemon.sri.com

Having now seen the flash movie demonstrations of Useme in action - this
answers many of my questions! Excellent work on these demos as well. It
really helps to see the product in action, and to have a running verbal
explanation.

Thanks!
Re: Welcome to ORMF [message #2902 is a reply to message #2755] Fri, 29 February 2008 10:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shaun Smith is currently offline Shaun Smith
Messages: 192
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi Joel,

I've read the proposal and it looks quite good. I have a background as
an agile software development coach so I appreciate the need for the kind
of tools you're proposing. I'm going to pass this on to a friend and
former colleague of mine who is very active in this area as she may want
to get involved.

The best advice I can give you is to build your list of interested
parties and get committers from more than one company involved. This is
something I put my focus on for EclipseLink and Dali. Any project with
enough interest will make it as an Eclipse project as long as it aligns
with the charter. Your synergies section is important too. Leveraging and
being leveraged by other projects is a good thing.

On that note, I'm involved with EclipseLink which provides object
persistence through Java Persistence API, Object/XML mapping, and Database
Web Services, all or some of which you could leverage in ORMF. I'm also
involved with Dali which provides tools for building JPA applications.
We're working with other Eclipse projects that need access to relational
data or work with XML and we'd be happy to help you out with ORMF if we
can. If you'd like to chat on the phone sometime let me know. I'm in
the Eastern time zone. I'll also be at EclipseCon most of the week if you
want to talk then.

Congratulations on your proposal!

Shaun
Re: Welcome to ORMF [message #2920 is a reply to message #2902] Fri, 29 February 2008 10:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Joel Rosi-Schwartz is currently offline Joel Rosi-Schwartz
Messages: 624
Registered: July 2009
Location: London. England
Senior Member
Shaun,

Thanks for the advice and encouragement. 

During the pre-proposal stage Mike Milinkovich also commented:

> Would re-hosting this on EclipseLink and other elements of the Eclipse
> Runtime project be a possibility?

My reply was:

> My immediate inclination was no, for a myriad of reasons. But after
> perusing the project I have changed my mind. EclipseLink has addressed
> many of the problems that we tackled initially in a less standard
> fashion using dom4j and a considerable amount of our own code. Of
> course when we addressed these issues four years ago the standards
> simply did not exist or were immature.  As I see it, EclipseLink would
> not replace the Java 5 EE server, but would rather offer a set of
> services within it. It appears that EclipseLink has specifically been
> architected to embrace this use case.  The reasons the server is still
> a core piece of the architecture lies in the fact that it provides ORMF
> with a number of essential services beyond persistence, e.g.
> authentication and authorisation, collaborative support, management of
> model integrity, publishing, etc.
>
> Thanks for the pointer and we will certainly investigate this more thoroughly.


After I have the opportunity to delve in EclipseLink, I will certainly
look forward to discussing how we may be able to take advantage of
EclipseLink.

Thanks for you time,
Joel
--
Joel Rosi-Schwartz
Etish Limited [http://www.etish.org]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

^...^
/ o,o \ The proud parents of Useme
|) ::: (| The Open Requirements Management Tool
====w=w==== [https://useme.dev.java.net]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Re: Welcome to ORMF [message #2939 is a reply to message #2920] Fri, 29 February 2008 10:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shaun Smith is currently offline Shaun Smith
Messages: 192
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi Joel,

You're right, EclipseLink implements a set of Java standards including
JPA and JAXB so you still need an app server, an OSGi container, or some
other framework to provide services like authorization and authentication.
We're all about object persistence and have no pretense about being a
server. :-)

BTW, I saw your initial target is Glassfish which, it turns out,
includes TopLink Essentials, a predecessor to EclipseLink.

Shaun

http://www.eclipse.org/eclipselink
http://www.eclipse.org/dali
Re: Welcome to ORMF [message #2956 is a reply to message #2920] Fri, 29 February 2008 10:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shaun Smith is currently offline Shaun Smith
Messages: 192
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Repost--first one disappeared!?

Hi Joel,

You're right, EclipseLink implements a set of Java standards including
JPA and JAXB so you still need an app server, an OSGi container, or some
other framework to provide services like authorization and authentication.
We're all about object persistence and have no pretense about being a
server. :-)

BTW, I saw your initial target is Glassfish which, it turns out,
includes TopLink Essentials, a predecessor to EclipseLink.

Shaun

http://www.eclipse.org/eclipselink
http://www.eclipse.org/dali
Re: Welcome to ORMF [message #2973 is a reply to message #2956] Fri, 29 February 2008 11:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Joel Rosi-Schwartz is currently offline Joel Rosi-Schwartz
Messages: 624
Registered: July 2009
Location: London. England
Senior Member
Ah, the picture becomes a bit clearer; I was not aware of the
connection between TopLink and EclipseLink. The Useme code presently
uses TopLink Essentials as the JPA provider. So we are already on the
path I assume.

Joel
--
Joel Rosi-Schwartz
Etish Limited [http://www.etish.org]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

^...^
/ o,o \ The proud parents of Useme
|) ::: (| The Open Requirements Management Tool
====w=w==== [https://useme.dev.java.net]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Re: Welcome to ORMF [message #3007 is a reply to message #2973] Fri, 29 February 2008 15:39 Go to previous message
Shaun Smith is currently offline Shaun Smith
Messages: 192
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Absolutely. You're definitely on the right path. We even have a migration
utility you can run on your source to move from TopLink Essentials to
EclipseLink! :-)

By way of background, the EclipseLink project was started with a
contribution of the entire Oracle TopLink source code--the same code base
from which TopLink Essentials was originally derived. Moving JPA
applications from Oracle TopLink and TopLink Essentials to EclipseLink is
pretty easy and typically just involves updating imports and changing
property names with "toplink" to "eclipselink" in your persistence.xml
file. But as I mentioned, the migration utility does all this for you.

Shaun
Re: Welcome to ORMF [message #561219 is a reply to message #2755] Mon, 25 February 2008 14:16 Go to previous message
Harm Sluiman is currently offline Harm Sluiman
Messages: 20
Registered: July 2009
Junior Member
Hi Joel. I understand you also pinged Paul Slauenwhite about mentoring and
he mentioned the project to me as well. Paul will be a good mentor if he has
time to accept.

It is an interesting project and reading through the proposal made me think
of various design questions, but one thing at a time ;-)

I think this is an interesting project and look forward to poking around in
it. It fits with the design mentality I have heard on this subject in the
past. As Paul may have told you, in Hyades (the TPTP predecessor) we have
places in our model to reference "motivators" which are intended to be
requirements or plan artifacts, and we did the 6 years ago when working on
the UML 2 Test Profile. So we have been waiting for you ;-)

I do have a couple of comments for you.

I think it will be key to make API of the artifacts you flow on the wire
between the client and server. Plus if you can keep that protocol truly
restful you will be building something for the future. The reference model
will also be critical since to get adoption you need to be able to reference
out to anything, but also be easily referenced. Persistent references are
never as easy as they sound, as you probably know ;-)

An Eclipse or RCP based client is a great start, but a browser client is
equally if not more valuable long term. I hate to say Web 2.0 and Ajax but
you know what I mean.

Also, there are no "standards" for requirements and defects etc. which are
in the end the data artifacts you will pass so if you can also find a way to
embrace or influence some W3C. OMG or ISO group to start defining a draft
which you provide the reference impl for you will be guaranteed a winner.

So my net is that you need to publish API in the artifact space even more
than for plugins, and declaring API is serious stuff so don't do it fast,
but do it well. (easy for me to say ;-)) It would be good if your proposal
highlighted some of your intentions in this space.

I also think it would be good if you can identify some other parties that
are going to collaborate with you day 1. This can only be a plus for the
project, but it will also address concerns some have about a potential code
dumping form one group to feed a private open source effort. I am sure this
is not your intent, but the community will appreciate seeing your commitment
to making sure this is not going to be the case.

When I have time to read the other links in the proposal document I may poke
you with some other feedback. In the meantime, perhaps we can hook up at
Eclipsecon.

Harm Sluiman
Re: Welcome to ORMF [message #561236 is a reply to message #2755] Mon, 25 February 2008 16:29 Go to previous message
Jochen Krause is currently offline Jochen Krause
Messages: 72
Registered: July 2009
Member
Hi Joel,

Just a few observations and questions:

Your development plan looks very ambitious, the terminology seems to be
mixed up. M(n) Releases are milestones, they provide the latest
functionality. RC(n) are release candidates, normally there is a feature
and api freeze before you publish a RC. This would leave you just 6
weeks for developing new functionality - not sure if this is intended.
You should name the deliveries either M(n) or RC(n).

How do you bridge the gap between textual representation and UML model?

Does everybody that wants to specify requirements need an Eclipse
installation? If yes, I think that this is highly problematic.

Are your server components already packaged in (OSGI) bundles? Why do
you require a JEE server?

Jochen



Joel Rosi-Schwartz wrote:
> I would like to take the opportunity to introduce Barbara and myself.
> We have been working towards realising Useme (now part of ORMF) for
> a few years. We take great pleasure at the opportunity to now have our
> work incorporated officially into the Eclipse project.
>
> We very much look forward to feedback from the community on the
> proposal we have put forth on ORMF. There are a number of
> opportunities for collaboration that we envision and we anticipate
> having many fine recommendations for others being brought up for
> discussion here. It is our goal to nurture and develop all potential
> relationships; we embrace co-operation and collaboration with all
> interested parties, be they contributors, supporters or users.
>
> For more information please see:
>
> - The proposal which is located at http://www.eclipse.org/
> proposals/ormf/
>
> - The articles on the Useme website located here https://
> useme.dev.java.net/documentation/index.html
>
> - The Etish website here, http://www.etish.org/
>
> Thanks for visiting and we hope that you find this project interesting
> and useful.
>
> Cheers,
> Joel & Barbara
>
>
>
>
Re: Welcome to ORMF [message #561254 is a reply to message #2755] Tue, 26 February 2008 18:20 Go to previous message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: neil.prestemon.sri.com

So far, from what I have read, (and from a recent "tour" of other
Requirements Management tools out there.) - this concept presents an
interesting innovation; (though, I agree, having Eclipse as a necessary
component might be a a barrier for some stakeholders - like the
non-technical side of things, the Marketing Requirements guys, etc.)

I really like the idea of having a way to link the tool you're creating
UML diagrams in, with a Requirements Management tool, and and being able
to link those artifacts to source code. SPARX can do the UML linkage
(between Enterprise Architect and RaQuest), Thoughtworks Mingle can link
Requirements to your SVN comments, but I don't really see anything else
out there that attempts to do it the way ORMF plans to. I'm very eager to
see how it all actually works!

Maybe there would be a way, through ORMF, to do the document generation in
Open Office for the non-technical stakeholders. Or the other elements of
Software Development Life Cycle management, like Test Management, can go
through a web interface to the J2EE backend.
Re: Welcome to ORMF [message #561268 is a reply to message #2755] Wed, 27 February 2008 10:38 Go to previous message
Richard Gronback is currently offline Richard Gronback
Messages: 605
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
An interesting proposal, and I look forward to seeing more at EclipseCon and
discussing the relationship with the Modeling project.

Building a long list of interested parties is a fine goal, although imho the
most likely path to success for a project of this nature and scope is to
have (at least) several dedicated resources. Hopefully, another member of
the Foundation will apply resources to help you out, particularly if ORMF is
to form the basis for a set of commercial requirements management tools.

You list OSEE as a possible collaborator, so just to help along the
discussion I've cc'd their newsgroup.

Best Regards,
Rich


On 2/20/08 11:18 AM, in article
5F810CB0-5D9F-4BA8-A63A-7870DF0E0432%Joel.Rosi-Schwartz@Etish.org, "Joel
Rosi-Schwartz" <Joel.Rosi-Schwartz@Etish.org> wrote:

> I would like to take the opportunity to introduce Barbara and myself.
> We have been working towards realising Useme (now part of ORMF) for
> a few years. We take great pleasure at the opportunity to now have our
> work incorporated officially into the Eclipse project.
>
> We very much look forward to feedback from the community on the
> proposal we have put forth on ORMF. There are a number of
> opportunities for collaboration that we envision and we anticipate
> having many fine recommendations for others being brought up for
> discussion here. It is our goal to nurture and develop all potential
> relationships; we embrace co-operation and collaboration with all
> interested parties, be they contributors, supporters or users.
>
> For more information please see:
>
> - The proposal which is located at http://www.eclipse.org/
> proposals/ormf/
>
> - The articles on the Useme website located here https://
> useme.dev.java.net/documentation/index.html
>
> - The Etish website here, http://www.etish.org/
>
> Thanks for visiting and we hope that you find this project interesting
> and useful.
>
> Cheers,
> Joel & Barbara
>
>
>
Re: Welcome to ORMF [message #561288 is a reply to message #2808] Wed, 27 February 2008 19:50 Go to previous message
Eclipse User
Originally posted by: neil.prestemon.sri.com

Having now seen the flash movie demonstrations of Useme in action - this
answers many of my questions! Excellent work on these demos as well. It
really helps to see the product in action, and to have a running verbal
explanation.

Thanks!
Re: Welcome to ORMF [message #561334 is a reply to message #2755] Fri, 29 February 2008 10:03 Go to previous message
Shaun Smith is currently offline Shaun Smith
Messages: 192
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi Joel,

I've read the proposal and it looks quite good. I have a background as
an agile software development coach so I appreciate the need for the kind
of tools you're proposing. I'm going to pass this on to a friend and
former colleague of mine who is very active in this area as she may want
to get involved.

The best advice I can give you is to build your list of interested
parties and get committers from more than one company involved. This is
something I put my focus on for EclipseLink and Dali. Any project with
enough interest will make it as an Eclipse project as long as it aligns
with the charter. Your synergies section is important too. Leveraging and
being leveraged by other projects is a good thing.

On that note, I'm involved with EclipseLink which provides object
persistence through Java Persistence API, Object/XML mapping, and Database
Web Services, all or some of which you could leverage in ORMF. I'm also
involved with Dali which provides tools for building JPA applications.
We're working with other Eclipse projects that need access to relational
data or work with XML and we'd be happy to help you out with ORMF if we
can. If you'd like to chat on the phone sometime let me know. I'm in
the Eastern time zone. I'll also be at EclipseCon most of the week if you
want to talk then.

Congratulations on your proposal!

Shaun
Re: Welcome to ORMF [message #561346 is a reply to message #2902] Fri, 29 February 2008 10:35 Go to previous message
Joel Rosi-Schwartz is currently offline Joel Rosi-Schwartz
Messages: 624
Registered: July 2009
Location: London. England
Senior Member
Shaun,

Thanks for the advice and encouragement. 

During the pre-proposal stage Mike Milinkovich also commented:

> Would re-hosting this on EclipseLink and other elements of the Eclipse
> Runtime project be a possibility?

My reply was:

> My immediate inclination was no, for a myriad of reasons. But after
> perusing the project I have changed my mind. EclipseLink has addressed
> many of the problems that we tackled initially in a less standard
> fashion using dom4j and a considerable amount of our own code. Of
> course when we addressed these issues four years ago the standards
> simply did not exist or were immature.  As I see it, EclipseLink would
> not replace the Java 5 EE server, but would rather offer a set of
> services within it. It appears that EclipseLink has specifically been
> architected to embrace this use case.  The reasons the server is still
> a core piece of the architecture lies in the fact that it provides ORMF
> with a number of essential services beyond persistence, e.g.
> authentication and authorisation, collaborative support, management of
> model integrity, publishing, etc.
>
> Thanks for the pointer and we will certainly investigate this more thoroughly.


After I have the opportunity to delve in EclipseLink, I will certainly
look forward to discussing how we may be able to take advantage of
EclipseLink.

Thanks for you time,
Joel
--
Joel Rosi-Schwartz
Etish Limited [http://www.etish.org]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

^...^
/ o,o \ The proud parents of Useme
|) ::: (| The Open Requirements Management Tool
====w=w==== [https://useme.dev.java.net]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Re: Welcome to ORMF [message #561366 is a reply to message #2920] Fri, 29 February 2008 10:48 Go to previous message
Shaun Smith is currently offline Shaun Smith
Messages: 192
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Hi Joel,

You're right, EclipseLink implements a set of Java standards including
JPA and JAXB so you still need an app server, an OSGi container, or some
other framework to provide services like authorization and authentication.
We're all about object persistence and have no pretense about being a
server. :-)

BTW, I saw your initial target is Glassfish which, it turns out,
includes TopLink Essentials, a predecessor to EclipseLink.

Shaun

http://www.eclipse.org/eclipselink
http://www.eclipse.org/dali
Re: Welcome to ORMF [message #561380 is a reply to message #2920] Fri, 29 February 2008 10:55 Go to previous message
Shaun Smith is currently offline Shaun Smith
Messages: 192
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Repost--first one disappeared!?

Hi Joel,

You're right, EclipseLink implements a set of Java standards including
JPA and JAXB so you still need an app server, an OSGi container, or some
other framework to provide services like authorization and authentication.
We're all about object persistence and have no pretense about being a
server. :-)

BTW, I saw your initial target is Glassfish which, it turns out,
includes TopLink Essentials, a predecessor to EclipseLink.

Shaun

http://www.eclipse.org/eclipselink
http://www.eclipse.org/dali
Re: Welcome to ORMF [message #561397 is a reply to message #2956] Fri, 29 February 2008 11:10 Go to previous message
Joel Rosi-Schwartz is currently offline Joel Rosi-Schwartz
Messages: 624
Registered: July 2009
Location: London. England
Senior Member
Ah, the picture becomes a bit clearer; I was not aware of the
connection between TopLink and EclipseLink. The Useme code presently
uses TopLink Essentials as the JPA provider. So we are already on the
path I assume.

Joel
--
Joel Rosi-Schwartz
Etish Limited [http://www.etish.org]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

^...^
/ o,o \ The proud parents of Useme
|) ::: (| The Open Requirements Management Tool
====w=w==== [https://useme.dev.java.net]

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Re: Welcome to ORMF [message #561436 is a reply to message #2973] Fri, 29 February 2008 15:39 Go to previous message
Shaun Smith is currently offline Shaun Smith
Messages: 192
Registered: July 2009
Senior Member
Absolutely. You're definitely on the right path. We even have a migration
utility you can run on your source to move from TopLink Essentials to
EclipseLink! :-)

By way of background, the EclipseLink project was started with a
contribution of the entire Oracle TopLink source code--the same code base
from which TopLink Essentials was originally derived. Moving JPA
applications from Oracle TopLink and TopLink Essentials to EclipseLink is
pretty easy and typically just involves updating imports and changing
property names with "toplink" to "eclipselink" in your persistence.xml
file. But as I mentioned, the migration utility does all this for you.

Shaun
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