Home » Modeling » EMF » Hello World CDO(Any usable documentation and samples to use CDO?)
| Hello World CDO [message #879251] |
Wed, 30 May 2012 17:10  |
 Allan Chase
Messages: 3
Registered: July 2009 |
Junior Member |
|
|
|
At this juncture, I'm looking for the easy button start point into CDO. Is there a Hello World sample somewhere that doesn't require understanding of several frameworks just to get started? I don't know SVN, GIT, EGIT, JGIT...blah blah blah, so downloading the Eclipsepedia samples doesn't seem possible until I erase and load my operating system with RedHat and go willy-nilly trapsing about update sites hodge-podging my IDE together. I have a real simple EMF model that I would like to contain with CDO. I want to perform queries, perform updates and so on; now, if I have to use several dozen frameworks to get a piece of data into or out of a database, I'd like to know that up front because I'll probably just avoid this whole thing and write something clean and sensible. Somewhere in here, there is an architect that went off the reservation.
|
|
|
| Re: Hello World CDO [message #879667 is a reply to message #879251] |
Thu, 31 May 2012 11:53  |
Eike Stepper
Messages: 5153
Registered: July 2009 |
Senior Member |
|
|
Am 30.05.2012 23:10, schrieb Allan Chase:
> At this juncture, I'm looking for the easy button start point into CDO.
Easy but still complete according to your specific needs? I doubt there's one somewhere.
> Is there a Hello World sample somewhere
Example plugins can be imported from your target platform into the workspace once you've installed CDO.
> that doesn't require understanding of several frameworks just to get started?
CDO does not depend on any frameworks other than Net4j (included), EMF (you obviously know it) and the database system
of your choice. Well, some optional features (e.g., OCL Query support) require additional frameworks (e.g., OCL).
> I don't know SVN, GIT, EGIT, JGIT...blah blah blah,
Some of these tools are mentioned on http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO_Source_Installation . Developers usually know them.
Of course you don't need to install the entire sources, API baselines, etc. That's meant for those who want to contribute.
You can install the binaries (optionally including source bundles) through p2: http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/downloads and
there are even ZIPs available.
> so downloading the Eclipsepedia samples doesn't seem possible until I erase and load my operating system with RedHat
> and go willy-nilly trapsing about update sites hodge-podging my IDE together.
I'm not a native English speaker and have no time to look up these funny words. Is there anything I'd miss if I skip them?
> I have a real simple EMF model
Simplicity, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.
> that I would like to contain with CDO.
There are lots of tutorials: http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO/User_Contributed_Documentation
I like this one in particular: http://www.rcp-vision.com/?p=1285&lang=en
> I want to perform queries,
In what query language?
> perform updates and so on;
That's base functionality. Open a CDOSession to your repository, open a CDOTransaction on your session, load a resource
through the transaction, modify it and commit() the transcation.
> now, if I have to use several dozen frameworks to get a piece of data into or out of a database, I'd like to know that
> up front
I recommend to use an H2 database if you want to start simple. CDO Core needs no other frameworks.
> because I'll probably just avoid this whole thing and write something clean and sensible.
That being less work is usually an illusion.
> Somewhere in here, there is an architect that went off the reservation.
Again, I'm not a native speaker but to me this sounds insulting. Can you please explain what you mean by this?
Cheers
/Eike
----
http://www.esc-net.de
http://thegordian.blogspot.com
http://twitter.com/eikestepper
|
|
|
| Re: Hello World CDO [message #880223 is a reply to message #879667] |
Fri, 01 June 2012 12:52 |
Allan Chase
Messages: 3
Registered: July 2009 |
Junior Member |
|
|
Thanks for your response Eike,
> Is there a Hello World sample somewhere
Example plugins can be imported from your target platform into the workspace once you've installed CDO.
>>Well, I follow the instructions perfectly and get an error message that the request was invalid, so it isn't that easy.
> that doesn't require understanding of several frameworks just to get started?
CDO does not depend on any frameworks other than Net4j (included), EMF (you obviously know it) and the database system
of your choice. Well, some optional features (e.g., OCL Query support) require additional frameworks (e.g., OCL).
>>Well, I hate to disagree, but you then have to know something about additional frameworks (either required or not), that relies on you knowing exactly how they work. So, to do a simple CDO sample, it appears that you need CDO, Net4J, EMF, Hibernate? Teneo? Probably the Eclipse Tools and Modeling stuff too? It just seems way too much.
> I don't know SVN, GIT, EGIT, JGIT...blah blah blah,
Some of these tools are mentioned on wiki.eclipse.org/CDO_Source_Installation . Developers usually know them.
>>Sure, but some of us only know and use Clear Case. Again, tons of options to make mistakes with.
> so downloading the Eclipsepedia samples doesn't seem possible until I erase and load my operating system with RedHat
> and go willy-nilly trapsing about update sites hodge-podging my IDE together.
I'm not a native English speaker and have no time to look up these funny words. Is there anything I'd miss if I skip them?
>>no, you wouldn't, this is ranting on my part.
> because I'll probably just avoid this whole thing and write something clean and sensible.
That being less work is usually an illusion.
>>I would almost agree with this, but I can gaurentee that NO ONE really understands everything going on in todays frameworks(just point and click right?). So if something breaks in a large, very critcal production system, guess what?
> Somewhere in here, there is an architect that went off the reservation.
Again, I'm not a native speaker but to me this sounds insulting. Can you please explain what you mean by this?
>>That was intended to be insulting, so you are correct. What I mean is that many Architects like to stroke their huge egos by creating insanely abstract and obtuse things that are infinitely confusing so they can demonstrate how smart they are. Sure, they build something to where you can swap out your database whenenver, but how many times does one swap out large, very fundamental components to a system? And what about the numerous layers between an application and the database, what performance impacts does that have on high end mission critical applications? Maybe think about it this way, would you trust all these frameworks together to help you fly an aircraft with 300 people on board?
|
|
|
| Re: Hello World CDO [message #880234 is a reply to message #879251] |
Fri, 01 June 2012 13:20 |
Alan McMorran
Messages: 53
Registered: July 2009 |
Member |
|
|
On 2012-05-30 21:10:03 +0000, Allan Chase said:
> I don't know SVN, GIT, EGIT, JGIT...blah blah blah, so downloading the
> Eclipsepedia samples doesn't seem possible until I erase and load my
> operating system with RedHat and go willy-nilly trapsing about update
> sites hodge-podging my IDE together. I have a real simple EMF model
> that I would like to contain with CDO. I want to perform queries,
> perform updates and so on; now, if I have to use several dozen
> frameworks to get a piece of data into or out of a database, I'd like
> to know that up front because I'll probably just avoid this whole thing
> and write something clean and sensible. Somewhere in here, there is an
> architect that went off the reservation.
This has to be the single most arrogant and insulting attempt to ask
for help I have ever read on these forums. It says a lot about Eike
Stepper's character that he gave you valuable, constructive feedback
considering the tone in which your question has been asked.
If you "don't know" how to use even rudimentary source control
functionality or how to install Eclipse components into your
development environment then I think you're going to have trouble
getting any piece of non-trivial software to work. CDO does all that
you require and more but if you're incapable or unwilling to read
through the available material describing how to go about setting up
your first CDO server and client and instead come onto this newsgroup
suggesting the authors of the software have gone "off the reservation"
because the code is beyond your level of comprehension then you will
get nowhere.
I am neither an architect, developer or contributor to CDO, I am simple
a very grateful user of this immensely powerful technology. If you
honestly think you can write something that is cleaner and more
sensible then all it does is highlight your myopic view about what CDO
offers.
|
|
|
| Re: Hello World CDO [message #880265 is a reply to message #880234] |
Fri, 01 June 2012 14:16 |
Allan Chase
Messages: 3
Registered: July 2009 |
Junior Member |
|
|
Seems like I have struck a chord. So now you've apparently caught a fraction of my overall frustration and that was the intent.
I like your final statement, because it talks about the title of this thread. What does CDO offer? Is there enough documentation (low level, real code, real samples) that can discuss using CDO as a model repository vs. as a runtime persistence mechanism? And are there ample execeptions that come back when transactions fail? Can you performance and tune such a creature? How does the security model work, is it role based or? How well does it recover from catastrophic errors? How exactly does the offline clone & fail over work. Does anyone know or do you just "trust" that it works?
The point of this whole tyrade was to suggest that if you put something out there, document the hell out of it so we can understand it and make it easy to get your samples. I found some CDO site hosted via CVS and they said just point to this and download it. Well, when you do that in Eclipse, it starts asking for usernames/passwords and all this stuff which wasn't PUBLISHED. The part that I do overlook is all the spelling and grammatical mistakes within a professional product, but all in all, the concepts and the intent should be clear.
If you are putting a real production system together, I'm not so comfortable doing that by blogs/forums and small shreds of evidence that a technology exists.
Now on to your challenge, Alan. Could I write something like CDO, sure, most of us could. Would you want to? Probably not.
--Allan
|
|
|
| Re: Hello World CDO [message #880317 is a reply to message #880265] |
Fri, 01 June 2012 17:04 |
Eike Stepper
Messages: 5153
Registered: July 2009 |
Senior Member |
|
|
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
Am 01.06.2012 20:16, schrieb Allan Chase:
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Seems
like I have struck a chord. So now you've apparently caught a
fraction of my overall frustration </blockquote>
Frustration about what? The lack of documentation that *some*
commercial (read: expensive) frameworks? Are you willing to pay for
better documentation?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">and
that was the intent.
<br>
</blockquote>
No, that wasn't your intent or you'd have found nicer words to make
that clear. Probably just a lack of social skills...<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
<br>
I like your final statement, because it talks about the title of
this thread. What does CDO offer? </blockquote>
Have a look at the documentation:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/documentation">http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/documentation</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Is
there enough documentation (low level, real code, real samples)
that can discuss using CDO as a model repository vs. as a runtime
persistence mechanism? </blockquote>
Certainly there's not enough documentation. Neither the spare time
committers and contributors nor those that come from commercial
consumer companies seem to be willing to invest more into the
documentation than into actual new features or stability
improvements. Have *you* ever contributed back to the free stuff
you're using. With your excellent English language skills you seem
to be predestined.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">And
are there ample execeptions that come back when transactions
fail? </blockquote>
Do you have concrete experiences of insufficient failure feedback?
Bug reports are an adequate means to complain concretely and
constructively. That's also a way to contribute back, and cheap.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Can
you performance and tune such a creature? </blockquote>
The wiki has a lot of hints:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO/Tweaking_Performance">http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO/Tweaking_Performance</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
does the security model work, is it role based or? </blockquote>
In the context of a German research project we currently design a
default security model that helps to configure the low-level hooks
more conveniently. Criticism in the form of constructive suggestions
is most welcome:<br>
<br>
<img src="http://www.eclipse.org/forums/index.php?t=getfile&id=10001" alt=""><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
well does it recover from catastrophic errors? </blockquote>
That's backend-specific. The default DBStore relies on the
mechanisms that exist in the physical SQL database that's used and
supports additional crash detection and automatic recovery of the
internal counters.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
exactly does the offline clone & fail over work. </blockquote>
Granted, here we lack of documentation. Funny, just the other day
another forum user offered to write a respective tutorial once he's
mastered it with my forum help ;-)<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Does
anyone know </blockquote>
Who knows that?!<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">or
do you just "trust" that it works? <br>
</blockquote>
I never even trust existing documentation but always look into the
source code of the technologies I use. But that requires to learn
the tools needed to check it out.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">The
point of this whole tyrade was to suggest that if you put
something out there, document the hell out of it so we can
understand it </blockquote>
Generally that suggestion would have been valid (though not new).
You're just very bad in using the right words to make us listen.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">and
make it easy to get your samples. </blockquote>
All builds on our nice downloads page
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/downloads">http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/downloads</a> contain source bundles for
everything including the examples and the tests.<br>
<br>
We describe exactly how to install the sources (that include the
examples): <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO_Source_Installation">http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO_Source_Installation</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">I
found some CDO site hosted via CVS</blockquote>
Where?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
and they said just point to this and download it. </blockquote>
Who?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Well,
when you do that in Eclipse, it starts asking for
usernames/passwords and all this stuff which wasn't PUBLISHED. </blockquote>
Do what?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">The
part that I do overlook is all the spelling and grammatical
mistakes within a professional product, </blockquote>
A mistake; use your English eloquence to fix them!<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">but
all in all, the concepts and the intent should be clear. <br>
</blockquote>
Granted.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">If
you are putting a real production system together, I'm not so
comfortable doing that by blogs/forums and small shreds of
evidence that a technology exists. <br>
</blockquote>
I think the major advantage of open source technologies is generally
not so much the good documentation but the fact that in case of
problems everybody is free to investigate and possibly fix them, to
have an online connection to the helpful developers (try that in
case of problems with commercial products).<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Now
on to your challenge, Alan. Could I write something like CDO,
sure, most of us could. Would you want to? Probably not.
<br>
</blockquote>
So, what's the value in suggesting it eagerly?<br>
<br>
Cheers<br>
/Eike<br>
<br>
----<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.esc-net.de">http://www.esc-net.de</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://thegordian.blogspot.com">http://thegordian.blogspot.com</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://twitter.com/eikestepper">http://twitter.com/eikestepper</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</body>
</html>
Attachment: fdiechdh.png
(Size: 22.60KB, Downloaded 32 times)
|
|
|
| Re: Hello World CDO [message #880319 is a reply to message #880265] |
Fri, 01 June 2012 17:04 |
Eike Stepper
Messages: 5153
Registered: July 2009 |
Senior Member |
|
|
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
Am 01.06.2012 20:16, schrieb Allan Chase:
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Seems
like I have struck a chord. So now you've apparently caught a
fraction of my overall frustration </blockquote>
Frustration about what? The lack of documentation that *some*
commercial (read: expensive) frameworks? Are you willing to pay for
better documentation?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">and
that was the intent.
<br>
</blockquote>
No, that wasn't your intent or you'd have found nicer words to make
that clear. Probably just a lack of social skills...<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
<br>
I like your final statement, because it talks about the title of
this thread. What does CDO offer? </blockquote>
Have a look at the documentation:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/documentation">http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/documentation</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Is
there enough documentation (low level, real code, real samples)
that can discuss using CDO as a model repository vs. as a runtime
persistence mechanism? </blockquote>
Certainly there's not enough documentation. Neither the spare time
committers and contributors nor those that come from commercial
consumer companies seem to be willing to invest more into the
documentation than into actual new features or stability
improvements. Have *you* ever contributed back to the free stuff
you're using. With your excellent English language skills you seem
to be predestined.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">And
are there ample execeptions that come back when transactions
fail? </blockquote>
Do you have concrete experiences of insufficient failure feedback?
Bug reports are an adequate means to complain concretely and
constructively. That's also a way to contribute back, and cheap.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Can
you performance and tune such a creature? </blockquote>
The wiki has a lot of hints:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO/Tweaking_Performance">http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO/Tweaking_Performance</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
does the security model work, is it role based or? </blockquote>
In the context of a German research project we currently design a
default security model that helps to configure the low-level hooks
more conveniently. Criticism in the form of constructive suggestions
is most welcome:<br>
<br>
<img src="http://www.eclipse.org/forums/index.php?t=getfile&id=10002" alt=""><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
well does it recover from catastrophic errors? </blockquote>
That's backend-specific. The default DBStore relies on the
mechanisms that exist in the physical SQL database that's used and
supports additional crash detection and automatic recovery of the
internal counters.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
exactly does the offline clone & fail over work. </blockquote>
Granted, here we lack of documentation. Funny, just the other day
another forum user offered to write a respective tutorial once he's
mastered it with my forum help ;-)<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Does
anyone know </blockquote>
Who knows that?!<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">or
do you just "trust" that it works? <br>
</blockquote>
I never even trust existing documentation but always look into the
source code of the technologies I use. But that requires to learn
the tools needed to check it out.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">The
point of this whole tyrade was to suggest that if you put
something out there, document the hell out of it so we can
understand it </blockquote>
Generally that suggestion would have been valid (though not new).
You're just very bad in using the right words to make us listen.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">and
make it easy to get your samples. </blockquote>
All builds on our nice downloads page
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/downloads">http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/downloads</a> contain source bundles for
everything including the examples and the tests.<br>
<br>
We describe exactly how to install the sources (that include the
examples): <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO_Source_Installation">http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO_Source_Installation</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">I
found some CDO site hosted via CVS</blockquote>
Where?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
and they said just point to this and download it. </blockquote>
Who?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Well,
when you do that in Eclipse, it starts asking for
usernames/passwords and all this stuff which wasn't PUBLISHED. </blockquote>
Do what?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">The
part that I do overlook is all the spelling and grammatical
mistakes within a professional product, </blockquote>
A mistake; use your English eloquence to fix them!<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">but
all in all, the concepts and the intent should be clear. <br>
</blockquote>
Granted.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">If
you are putting a real production system together, I'm not so
comfortable doing that by blogs/forums and small shreds of
evidence that a technology exists. <br>
</blockquote>
I think the major advantage of open source technologies is generally
not so much the good documentation but the fact that in case of
problems everybody is free to investigate and possibly fix them, to
have an online connection to the helpful developers (try that in
case of problems with commercial products).<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Now
on to your challenge, Alan. Could I write something like CDO,
sure, most of us could. Would you want to? Probably not.
<br>
</blockquote>
So, what's the value in suggesting it eagerly?<br>
<br>
Cheers<br>
/Eike<br>
<br>
----<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.esc-net.de">http://www.esc-net.de</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://thegordian.blogspot.com">http://thegordian.blogspot.com</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://twitter.com/eikestepper">http://twitter.com/eikestepper</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</body>
</html>
-
Attachment: fdiechdh.png
(Size: 22.60KB, Downloaded 22 times)
|
|
|
| Re: Hello World CDO [message #880322 is a reply to message #880265] |
Fri, 01 June 2012 17:04 |
Eike Stepper
Messages: 5153
Registered: July 2009 |
Senior Member |
|
|
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
Am 01.06.2012 20:16, schrieb Allan Chase:
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Seems
like I have struck a chord. So now you've apparently caught a
fraction of my overall frustration </blockquote>
Frustration about what? The lack of documentation that *some*
commercial (read: expensive) frameworks? Are you willing to pay for
better documentation?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">and
that was the intent.
<br>
</blockquote>
No, that wasn't your intent or you'd have found nicer words to make
that clear. Probably just a lack of social skills...<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
<br>
I like your final statement, because it talks about the title of
this thread. What does CDO offer? </blockquote>
Have a look at the documentation:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/documentation">http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/documentation</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Is
there enough documentation (low level, real code, real samples)
that can discuss using CDO as a model repository vs. as a runtime
persistence mechanism? </blockquote>
Certainly there's not enough documentation. Neither the spare time
committers and contributors nor those that come from commercial
consumer companies seem to be willing to invest more into the
documentation than into actual new features or stability
improvements. Have *you* ever contributed back to the free stuff
you're using. With your excellent English language skills you seem
to be predestined.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">And
are there ample execeptions that come back when transactions
fail? </blockquote>
Do you have concrete experiences of insufficient failure feedback?
Bug reports are an adequate means to complain concretely and
constructively. That's also a way to contribute back, and cheap.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Can
you performance and tune such a creature? </blockquote>
The wiki has a lot of hints:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO/Tweaking_Performance">http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO/Tweaking_Performance</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
does the security model work, is it role based or? </blockquote>
In the context of a German research project we currently design a
default security model that helps to configure the low-level hooks
more conveniently. Criticism in the form of constructive suggestions
is most welcome:<br>
<br>
<img src="http://www.eclipse.org/forums/index.php?t=getfile&id=10003" alt=""><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
well does it recover from catastrophic errors? </blockquote>
That's backend-specific. The default DBStore relies on the
mechanisms that exist in the physical SQL database that's used and
supports additional crash detection and automatic recovery of the
internal counters.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
exactly does the offline clone & fail over work. </blockquote>
Granted, here we lack of documentation. Funny, just the other day
another forum user offered to write a respective tutorial once he's
mastered it with my forum help ;-)<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Does
anyone know </blockquote>
Who knows that?!<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">or
do you just "trust" that it works? <br>
</blockquote>
I never even trust existing documentation but always look into the
source code of the technologies I use. But that requires to learn
the tools needed to check it out.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">The
point of this whole tyrade was to suggest that if you put
something out there, document the hell out of it so we can
understand it </blockquote>
Generally that suggestion would have been valid (though not new).
You're just very bad in using the right words to make us listen.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">and
make it easy to get your samples. </blockquote>
All builds on our nice downloads page
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/downloads">http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/downloads</a> contain source bundles for
everything including the examples and the tests.<br>
<br>
We describe exactly how to install the sources (that include the
examples): <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO_Source_Installation">http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO_Source_Installation</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">I
found some CDO site hosted via CVS</blockquote>
Where?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
and they said just point to this and download it. </blockquote>
Who?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Well,
when you do that in Eclipse, it starts asking for
usernames/passwords and all this stuff which wasn't PUBLISHED. </blockquote>
Do what?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">The
part that I do overlook is all the spelling and grammatical
mistakes within a professional product, </blockquote>
A mistake; use your English eloquence to fix them!<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">but
all in all, the concepts and the intent should be clear. <br>
</blockquote>
Granted.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">If
you are putting a real production system together, I'm not so
comfortable doing that by blogs/forums and small shreds of
evidence that a technology exists. <br>
</blockquote>
I think the major advantage of open source technologies is generally
not so much the good documentation but the fact that in case of
problems everybody is free to investigate and possibly fix them, to
have an online connection to the helpful developers (try that in
case of problems with commercial products).<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Now
on to your challenge, Alan. Could I write something like CDO,
sure, most of us could. Would you want to? Probably not.
<br>
</blockquote>
So, what's the value in suggesting it eagerly?<br>
<br>
Cheers<br>
/Eike<br>
<br>
----<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.esc-net.de">http://www.esc-net.de</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://thegordian.blogspot.com">http://thegordian.blogspot.com</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://twitter.com/eikestepper">http://twitter.com/eikestepper</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</body>
</html>
-
Attachment: fdiechdh.png
(Size: 22.60KB, Downloaded 27 times)
|
|
|
| Re: Hello World CDO [message #880324 is a reply to message #880265] |
Fri, 01 June 2012 17:04 |
Eike Stepper
Messages: 5153
Registered: July 2009 |
Senior Member |
|
|
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
Am 01.06.2012 20:16, schrieb Allan Chase:
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Seems
like I have struck a chord. So now you've apparently caught a
fraction of my overall frustration </blockquote>
Frustration about what? The lack of documentation that *some*
commercial (read: expensive) frameworks? Are you willing to pay for
better documentation?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">and
that was the intent.
<br>
</blockquote>
No, that wasn't your intent or you'd have found nicer words to make
that clear. Probably just a lack of social skills...<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
<br>
I like your final statement, because it talks about the title of
this thread. What does CDO offer? </blockquote>
Have a look at the documentation:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/documentation">http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/documentation</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Is
there enough documentation (low level, real code, real samples)
that can discuss using CDO as a model repository vs. as a runtime
persistence mechanism? </blockquote>
Certainly there's not enough documentation. Neither the spare time
committers and contributors nor those that come from commercial
consumer companies seem to be willing to invest more into the
documentation than into actual new features or stability
improvements. Have *you* ever contributed back to the free stuff
you're using. With your excellent English language skills you seem
to be predestined.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">And
are there ample execeptions that come back when transactions
fail? </blockquote>
Do you have concrete experiences of insufficient failure feedback?
Bug reports are an adequate means to complain concretely and
constructively. That's also a way to contribute back, and cheap.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Can
you performance and tune such a creature? </blockquote>
The wiki has a lot of hints:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO/Tweaking_Performance">http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO/Tweaking_Performance</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
does the security model work, is it role based or? </blockquote>
In the context of a German research project we currently design a
default security model that helps to configure the low-level hooks
more conveniently. Criticism in the form of constructive suggestions
is most welcome:<br>
<br>
<img src="http://www.eclipse.org/forums/index.php?t=getfile&id=10004" alt=""><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
well does it recover from catastrophic errors? </blockquote>
That's backend-specific. The default DBStore relies on the
mechanisms that exist in the physical SQL database that's used and
supports additional crash detection and automatic recovery of the
internal counters.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
exactly does the offline clone & fail over work. </blockquote>
Granted, here we lack of documentation. Funny, just the other day
another forum user offered to write a respective tutorial once he's
mastered it with my forum help ;-)<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Does
anyone know </blockquote>
Who knows that?!<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">or
do you just "trust" that it works? <br>
</blockquote>
I never even trust existing documentation but always look into the
source code of the technologies I use. But that requires to learn
the tools needed to check it out.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">The
point of this whole tyrade was to suggest that if you put
something out there, document the hell out of it so we can
understand it </blockquote>
Generally that suggestion would have been valid (though not new).
You're just very bad in using the right words to make us listen.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">and
make it easy to get your samples. </blockquote>
All builds on our nice downloads page
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/downloads">http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/downloads</a> contain source bundles for
everything including the examples and the tests.<br>
<br>
We describe exactly how to install the sources (that include the
examples): <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO_Source_Installation">http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO_Source_Installation</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">I
found some CDO site hosted via CVS</blockquote>
Where?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
and they said just point to this and download it. </blockquote>
Who?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Well,
when you do that in Eclipse, it starts asking for
usernames/passwords and all this stuff which wasn't PUBLISHED. </blockquote>
Do what?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">The
part that I do overlook is all the spelling and grammatical
mistakes within a professional product, </blockquote>
A mistake; use your English eloquence to fix them!<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">but
all in all, the concepts and the intent should be clear. <br>
</blockquote>
Granted.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">If
you are putting a real production system together, I'm not so
comfortable doing that by blogs/forums and small shreds of
evidence that a technology exists. <br>
</blockquote>
I think the major advantage of open source technologies is generally
not so much the good documentation but the fact that in case of
problems everybody is free to investigate and possibly fix them, to
have an online connection to the helpful developers (try that in
case of problems with commercial products).<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Now
on to your challenge, Alan. Could I write something like CDO,
sure, most of us could. Would you want to? Probably not.
<br>
</blockquote>
So, what's the value in suggesting it eagerly?<br>
<br>
Cheers<br>
/Eike<br>
<br>
----<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.esc-net.de">http://www.esc-net.de</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://thegordian.blogspot.com">http://thegordian.blogspot.com</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://twitter.com/eikestepper">http://twitter.com/eikestepper</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</body>
</html>
-
Attachment: fdiechdh.png
(Size: 22.60KB, Downloaded 29 times)
|
|
|
| Re: Hello World CDO [message #880327 is a reply to message #880265] |
Fri, 01 June 2012 17:04 |
Eike Stepper
Messages: 5153
Registered: July 2009 |
Senior Member |
|
|
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
Am 01.06.2012 20:16, schrieb Allan Chase:
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Seems
like I have struck a chord. So now you've apparently caught a
fraction of my overall frustration </blockquote>
Frustration about what? The lack of documentation that *some*
commercial (read: expensive) frameworks? Are you willing to pay for
better documentation?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">and
that was the intent.
<br>
</blockquote>
No, that wasn't your intent or you'd have found nicer words to make
that clear. Probably just a lack of social skills...<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
<br>
I like your final statement, because it talks about the title of
this thread. What does CDO offer? </blockquote>
Have a look at the documentation:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/documentation">http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/documentation</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Is
there enough documentation (low level, real code, real samples)
that can discuss using CDO as a model repository vs. as a runtime
persistence mechanism? </blockquote>
Certainly there's not enough documentation. Neither the spare time
committers and contributors nor those that come from commercial
consumer companies seem to be willing to invest more into the
documentation than into actual new features or stability
improvements. Have *you* ever contributed back to the free stuff
you're using. With your excellent English language skills you seem
to be predestined.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">And
are there ample execeptions that come back when transactions
fail? </blockquote>
Do you have concrete experiences of insufficient failure feedback?
Bug reports are an adequate means to complain concretely and
constructively. That's also a way to contribute back, and cheap.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Can
you performance and tune such a creature? </blockquote>
The wiki has a lot of hints:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO/Tweaking_Performance">http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO/Tweaking_Performance</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
does the security model work, is it role based or? </blockquote>
In the context of a German research project we currently design a
default security model that helps to configure the low-level hooks
more conveniently. Criticism in the form of constructive suggestions
is most welcome:<br>
<br>
<img src="http://www.eclipse.org/forums/index.php?t=getfile&id=10005" alt=""><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
well does it recover from catastrophic errors? </blockquote>
That's backend-specific. The default DBStore relies on the
mechanisms that exist in the physical SQL database that's used and
supports additional crash detection and automatic recovery of the
internal counters.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
exactly does the offline clone & fail over work. </blockquote>
Granted, here we lack of documentation. Funny, just the other day
another forum user offered to write a respective tutorial once he's
mastered it with my forum help ;-)<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Does
anyone know </blockquote>
Who knows that?!<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">or
do you just "trust" that it works? <br>
</blockquote>
I never even trust existing documentation but always look into the
source code of the technologies I use. But that requires to learn
the tools needed to check it out.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">The
point of this whole tyrade was to suggest that if you put
something out there, document the hell out of it so we can
understand it </blockquote>
Generally that suggestion would have been valid (though not new).
You're just very bad in using the right words to make us listen.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">and
make it easy to get your samples. </blockquote>
All builds on our nice downloads page
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/downloads">http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/downloads</a> contain source bundles for
everything including the examples and the tests.<br>
<br>
We describe exactly how to install the sources (that include the
examples): <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO_Source_Installation">http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO_Source_Installation</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">I
found some CDO site hosted via CVS</blockquote>
Where?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
and they said just point to this and download it. </blockquote>
Who?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Well,
when you do that in Eclipse, it starts asking for
usernames/passwords and all this stuff which wasn't PUBLISHED. </blockquote>
Do what?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">The
part that I do overlook is all the spelling and grammatical
mistakes within a professional product, </blockquote>
A mistake; use your English eloquence to fix them!<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">but
all in all, the concepts and the intent should be clear. <br>
</blockquote>
Granted.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">If
you are putting a real production system together, I'm not so
comfortable doing that by blogs/forums and small shreds of
evidence that a technology exists. <br>
</blockquote>
I think the major advantage of open source technologies is generally
not so much the good documentation but the fact that in case of
problems everybody is free to investigate and possibly fix them, to
have an online connection to the helpful developers (try that in
case of problems with commercial products).<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Now
on to your challenge, Alan. Could I write something like CDO,
sure, most of us could. Would you want to? Probably not.
<br>
</blockquote>
So, what's the value in suggesting it eagerly?<br>
<br>
Cheers<br>
/Eike<br>
<br>
----<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.esc-net.de">http://www.esc-net.de</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://thegordian.blogspot.com">http://thegordian.blogspot.com</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://twitter.com/eikestepper">http://twitter.com/eikestepper</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</body>
</html>
-
Attachment: fdiechdh.png
(Size: 22.60KB, Downloaded 22 times)
|
|
|
| Re: Hello World CDO [message #880330 is a reply to message #880265] |
Fri, 01 June 2012 17:04 |
Eike Stepper
Messages: 5153
Registered: July 2009 |
Senior Member |
|
|
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
Am 01.06.2012 20:16, schrieb Allan Chase:
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Seems
like I have struck a chord. So now you've apparently caught a
fraction of my overall frustration </blockquote>
Frustration about what? The lack of documentation that *some*
commercial (read: expensive) frameworks? Are you willing to pay for
better documentation?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">and
that was the intent.
<br>
</blockquote>
No, that wasn't your intent or you'd have found nicer words to make
that clear. Probably just a lack of social skills...<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
<br>
I like your final statement, because it talks about the title of
this thread. What does CDO offer? </blockquote>
Have a look at the documentation:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/documentation">http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/documentation</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Is
there enough documentation (low level, real code, real samples)
that can discuss using CDO as a model repository vs. as a runtime
persistence mechanism? </blockquote>
Certainly there's not enough documentation. Neither the spare time
committers and contributors nor those that come from commercial
consumer companies seem to be willing to invest more into the
documentation than into actual new features or stability
improvements. Have *you* ever contributed back to the free stuff
you're using. With your excellent English language skills you seem
to be predestined.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">And
are there ample execeptions that come back when transactions
fail? </blockquote>
Do you have concrete experiences of insufficient failure feedback?
Bug reports are an adequate means to complain concretely and
constructively. That's also a way to contribute back, and cheap.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Can
you performance and tune such a creature? </blockquote>
The wiki has a lot of hints:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO/Tweaking_Performance">http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO/Tweaking_Performance</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
does the security model work, is it role based or? </blockquote>
In the context of a German research project we currently design a
default security model that helps to configure the low-level hooks
more conveniently. Criticism in the form of constructive suggestions
is most welcome:<br>
<br>
<img src="http://www.eclipse.org/forums/index.php?t=getfile&id=10006" alt=""><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
well does it recover from catastrophic errors? </blockquote>
That's backend-specific. The default DBStore relies on the
mechanisms that exist in the physical SQL database that's used and
supports additional crash detection and automatic recovery of the
internal counters.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
exactly does the offline clone & fail over work. </blockquote>
Granted, here we lack of documentation. Funny, just the other day
another forum user offered to write a respective tutorial once he's
mastered it with my forum help ;-)<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Does
anyone know </blockquote>
Who knows that?!<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">or
do you just "trust" that it works? <br>
</blockquote>
I never even trust existing documentation but always look into the
source code of the technologies I use. But that requires to learn
the tools needed to check it out.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">The
point of this whole tyrade was to suggest that if you put
something out there, document the hell out of it so we can
understand it </blockquote>
Generally that suggestion would have been valid (though not new).
You're just very bad in using the right words to make us listen.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">and
make it easy to get your samples. </blockquote>
All builds on our nice downloads page
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/downloads">http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/downloads</a> contain source bundles for
everything including the examples and the tests.<br>
<br>
We describe exactly how to install the sources (that include the
examples): <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO_Source_Installation">http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO_Source_Installation</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">I
found some CDO site hosted via CVS</blockquote>
Where?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
and they said just point to this and download it. </blockquote>
Who?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Well,
when you do that in Eclipse, it starts asking for
usernames/passwords and all this stuff which wasn't PUBLISHED. </blockquote>
Do what?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">The
part that I do overlook is all the spelling and grammatical
mistakes within a professional product, </blockquote>
A mistake; use your English eloquence to fix them!<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">but
all in all, the concepts and the intent should be clear. <br>
</blockquote>
Granted.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">If
you are putting a real production system together, I'm not so
comfortable doing that by blogs/forums and small shreds of
evidence that a technology exists. <br>
</blockquote>
I think the major advantage of open source technologies is generally
not so much the good documentation but the fact that in case of
problems everybody is free to investigate and possibly fix them, to
have an online connection to the helpful developers (try that in
case of problems with commercial products).<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Now
on to your challenge, Alan. Could I write something like CDO,
sure, most of us could. Would you want to? Probably not.
<br>
</blockquote>
So, what's the value in suggesting it eagerly?<br>
<br>
Cheers<br>
/Eike<br>
<br>
----<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.esc-net.de">http://www.esc-net.de</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://thegordian.blogspot.com">http://thegordian.blogspot.com</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://twitter.com/eikestepper">http://twitter.com/eikestepper</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</body>
</html>
-
Attachment: fdiechdh.png
(Size: 22.60KB, Downloaded 20 times)
|
|
|
| Re: Hello World CDO [message #880333 is a reply to message #880265] |
Fri, 01 June 2012 17:04 |
Eike Stepper
Messages: 5153
Registered: July 2009 |
Senior Member |
|
|
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
Am 01.06.2012 20:16, schrieb Allan Chase:
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Seems
like I have struck a chord. So now you've apparently caught a
fraction of my overall frustration </blockquote>
Frustration about what? The lack of documentation that *some*
commercial (read: expensive) frameworks? Are you willing to pay for
better documentation?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">and
that was the intent.
<br>
</blockquote>
No, that wasn't your intent or you'd have found nicer words to make
that clear. Probably just a lack of social skills...<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
<br>
I like your final statement, because it talks about the title of
this thread. What does CDO offer? </blockquote>
Have a look at the documentation:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/documentation">http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/documentation</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Is
there enough documentation (low level, real code, real samples)
that can discuss using CDO as a model repository vs. as a runtime
persistence mechanism? </blockquote>
Certainly there's not enough documentation. Neither the spare time
committers and contributors nor those that come from commercial
consumer companies seem to be willing to invest more into the
documentation than into actual new features or stability
improvements. Have *you* ever contributed back to the free stuff
you're using. With your excellent English language skills you seem
to be predestined.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">And
are there ample execeptions that come back when transactions
fail? </blockquote>
Do you have concrete experiences of insufficient failure feedback?
Bug reports are an adequate means to complain concretely and
constructively. That's also a way to contribute back, and cheap.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Can
you performance and tune such a creature? </blockquote>
The wiki has a lot of hints:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO/Tweaking_Performance">http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO/Tweaking_Performance</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
does the security model work, is it role based or? </blockquote>
In the context of a German research project we currently design a
default security model that helps to configure the low-level hooks
more conveniently. Criticism in the form of constructive suggestions
is most welcome:<br>
<br>
<img src="http://www.eclipse.org/forums/index.php?t=getfile&id=10007" alt=""><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
well does it recover from catastrophic errors? </blockquote>
That's backend-specific. The default DBStore relies on the
mechanisms that exist in the physical SQL database that's used and
supports additional crash detection and automatic recovery of the
internal counters.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
exactly does the offline clone & fail over work. </blockquote>
Granted, here we lack of documentation. Funny, just the other day
another forum user offered to write a respective tutorial once he's
mastered it with my forum help ;-)<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Does
anyone know </blockquote>
Who knows that?!<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">or
do you just "trust" that it works? <br>
</blockquote>
I never even trust existing documentation but always look into the
source code of the technologies I use. But that requires to learn
the tools needed to check it out.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">The
point of this whole tyrade was to suggest that if you put
something out there, document the hell out of it so we can
understand it </blockquote>
Generally that suggestion would have been valid (though not new).
You're just very bad in using the right words to make us listen.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">and
make it easy to get your samples. </blockquote>
All builds on our nice downloads page
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/downloads">http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/downloads</a> contain source bundles for
everything including the examples and the tests.<br>
<br>
We describe exactly how to install the sources (that include the
examples): <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO_Source_Installation">http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO_Source_Installation</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">I
found some CDO site hosted via CVS</blockquote>
Where?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
and they said just point to this and download it. </blockquote>
Who?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Well,
when you do that in Eclipse, it starts asking for
usernames/passwords and all this stuff which wasn't PUBLISHED. </blockquote>
Do what?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">The
part that I do overlook is all the spelling and grammatical
mistakes within a professional product, </blockquote>
A mistake; use your English eloquence to fix them!<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">but
all in all, the concepts and the intent should be clear. <br>
</blockquote>
Granted.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">If
you are putting a real production system together, I'm not so
comfortable doing that by blogs/forums and small shreds of
evidence that a technology exists. <br>
</blockquote>
I think the major advantage of open source technologies is generally
not so much the good documentation but the fact that in case of
problems everybody is free to investigate and possibly fix them, to
have an online connection to the helpful developers (try that in
case of problems with commercial products).<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Now
on to your challenge, Alan. Could I write something like CDO,
sure, most of us could. Would you want to? Probably not.
<br>
</blockquote>
So, what's the value in suggesting it eagerly?<br>
<br>
Cheers<br>
/Eike<br>
<br>
----<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.esc-net.de">http://www.esc-net.de</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://thegordian.blogspot.com">http://thegordian.blogspot.com</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://twitter.com/eikestepper">http://twitter.com/eikestepper</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</body>
</html>
-
Attachment: fdiechdh.png
(Size: 22.60KB, Downloaded 28 times)
|
|
|
| Re: Hello World CDO [message #880336 is a reply to message #880265] |
Fri, 01 June 2012 17:04 |
Eike Stepper
Messages: 5153
Registered: July 2009 |
Senior Member |
|
|
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
Am 01.06.2012 20:16, schrieb Allan Chase:
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Seems
like I have struck a chord. So now you've apparently caught a
fraction of my overall frustration </blockquote>
Frustration about what? The lack of documentation that *some*
commercial (read: expensive) frameworks? Are you willing to pay for
better documentation?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">and
that was the intent.
<br>
</blockquote>
No, that wasn't your intent or you'd have found nicer words to make
that clear. Probably just a lack of social skills...<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
<br>
I like your final statement, because it talks about the title of
this thread. What does CDO offer? </blockquote>
Have a look at the documentation:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/documentation">http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/documentation</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Is
there enough documentation (low level, real code, real samples)
that can discuss using CDO as a model repository vs. as a runtime
persistence mechanism? </blockquote>
Certainly there's not enough documentation. Neither the spare time
committers and contributors nor those that come from commercial
consumer companies seem to be willing to invest more into the
documentation than into actual new features or stability
improvements. Have *you* ever contributed back to the free stuff
you're using. With your excellent English language skills you seem
to be predestined.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">And
are there ample execeptions that come back when transactions
fail? </blockquote>
Do you have concrete experiences of insufficient failure feedback?
Bug reports are an adequate means to complain concretely and
constructively. That's also a way to contribute back, and cheap.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Can
you performance and tune such a creature? </blockquote>
The wiki has a lot of hints:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO/Tweaking_Performance">http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO/Tweaking_Performance</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
does the security model work, is it role based or? </blockquote>
In the context of a German research project we currently design a
default security model that helps to configure the low-level hooks
more conveniently. Criticism in the form of constructive suggestions
is most welcome:<br>
<br>
<img src="http://www.eclipse.org/forums/index.php?t=getfile&id=10008" alt=""><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
well does it recover from catastrophic errors? </blockquote>
That's backend-specific. The default DBStore relies on the
mechanisms that exist in the physical SQL database that's used and
supports additional crash detection and automatic recovery of the
internal counters.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
exactly does the offline clone & fail over work. </blockquote>
Granted, here we lack of documentation. Funny, just the other day
another forum user offered to write a respective tutorial once he's
mastered it with my forum help ;-)<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Does
anyone know </blockquote>
Who knows that?!<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">or
do you just "trust" that it works? <br>
</blockquote>
I never even trust existing documentation but always look into the
source code of the technologies I use. But that requires to learn
the tools needed to check it out.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">The
point of this whole tyrade was to suggest that if you put
something out there, document the hell out of it so we can
understand it </blockquote>
Generally that suggestion would have been valid (though not new).
You're just very bad in using the right words to make us listen.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">and
make it easy to get your samples. </blockquote>
All builds on our nice downloads page
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/downloads">http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/downloads</a> contain source bundles for
everything including the examples and the tests.<br>
<br>
We describe exactly how to install the sources (that include the
examples): <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO_Source_Installation">http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO_Source_Installation</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">I
found some CDO site hosted via CVS</blockquote>
Where?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
and they said just point to this and download it. </blockquote>
Who?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Well,
when you do that in Eclipse, it starts asking for
usernames/passwords and all this stuff which wasn't PUBLISHED. </blockquote>
Do what?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">The
part that I do overlook is all the spelling and grammatical
mistakes within a professional product, </blockquote>
A mistake; use your English eloquence to fix them!<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">but
all in all, the concepts and the intent should be clear. <br>
</blockquote>
Granted.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">If
you are putting a real production system together, I'm not so
comfortable doing that by blogs/forums and small shreds of
evidence that a technology exists. <br>
</blockquote>
I think the major advantage of open source technologies is generally
not so much the good documentation but the fact that in case of
problems everybody is free to investigate and possibly fix them, to
have an online connection to the helpful developers (try that in
case of problems with commercial products).<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Now
on to your challenge, Alan. Could I write something like CDO,
sure, most of us could. Would you want to? Probably not.
<br>
</blockquote>
So, what's the value in suggesting it eagerly?<br>
<br>
Cheers<br>
/Eike<br>
<br>
----<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.esc-net.de">http://www.esc-net.de</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://thegordian.blogspot.com">http://thegordian.blogspot.com</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://twitter.com/eikestepper">http://twitter.com/eikestepper</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</body>
</html>
-
Attachment: fdiechdh.png
(Size: 22.60KB, Downloaded 31 times)
|
|
|
| Re: Hello World CDO [message #880338 is a reply to message #880265] |
Fri, 01 June 2012 17:04 |
Eike Stepper
Messages: 5153
Registered: July 2009 |
Senior Member |
|
|
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
Am 01.06.2012 20:16, schrieb Allan Chase:
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Seems
like I have struck a chord. So now you've apparently caught a
fraction of my overall frustration </blockquote>
Frustration about what? The lack of documentation that *some*
commercial (read: expensive) frameworks? Are you willing to pay for
better documentation?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">and
that was the intent.
<br>
</blockquote>
No, that wasn't your intent or you'd have found nicer words to make
that clear. Probably just a lack of social skills...<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
<br>
I like your final statement, because it talks about the title of
this thread. What does CDO offer? </blockquote>
Have a look at the documentation:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/documentation">http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/documentation</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Is
there enough documentation (low level, real code, real samples)
that can discuss using CDO as a model repository vs. as a runtime
persistence mechanism? </blockquote>
Certainly there's not enough documentation. Neither the spare time
committers and contributors nor those that come from commercial
consumer companies seem to be willing to invest more into the
documentation than into actual new features or stability
improvements. Have *you* ever contributed back to the free stuff
you're using. With your excellent English language skills you seem
to be predestined.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">And
are there ample execeptions that come back when transactions
fail? </blockquote>
Do you have concrete experiences of insufficient failure feedback?
Bug reports are an adequate means to complain concretely and
constructively. That's also a way to contribute back, and cheap.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Can
you performance and tune such a creature? </blockquote>
The wiki has a lot of hints:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO/Tweaking_Performance">http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO/Tweaking_Performance</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
does the security model work, is it role based or? </blockquote>
In the context of a German research project we currently design a
default security model that helps to configure the low-level hooks
more conveniently. Criticism in the form of constructive suggestions
is most welcome:<br>
<br>
<img src="http://www.eclipse.org/forums/index.php?t=getfile&id=10009" alt=""><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
well does it recover from catastrophic errors? </blockquote>
That's backend-specific. The default DBStore relies on the
mechanisms that exist in the physical SQL database that's used and
supports additional crash detection and automatic recovery of the
internal counters.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
exactly does the offline clone & fail over work. </blockquote>
Granted, here we lack of documentation. Funny, just the other day
another forum user offered to write a respective tutorial once he's
mastered it with my forum help ;-)<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Does
anyone know </blockquote>
Who knows that?!<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">or
do you just "trust" that it works? <br>
</blockquote>
I never even trust existing documentation but always look into the
source code of the technologies I use. But that requires to learn
the tools needed to check it out.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">The
point of this whole tyrade was to suggest that if you put
something out there, document the hell out of it so we can
understand it </blockquote>
Generally that suggestion would have been valid (though not new).
You're just very bad in using the right words to make us listen.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">and
make it easy to get your samples. </blockquote>
All builds on our nice downloads page
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/downloads">http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/downloads</a> contain source bundles for
everything including the examples and the tests.<br>
<br>
We describe exactly how to install the sources (that include the
examples): <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO_Source_Installation">http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO_Source_Installation</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">I
found some CDO site hosted via CVS</blockquote>
Where?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
and they said just point to this and download it. </blockquote>
Who?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Well,
when you do that in Eclipse, it starts asking for
usernames/passwords and all this stuff which wasn't PUBLISHED. </blockquote>
Do what?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">The
part that I do overlook is all the spelling and grammatical
mistakes within a professional product, </blockquote>
A mistake; use your English eloquence to fix them!<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">but
all in all, the concepts and the intent should be clear. <br>
</blockquote>
Granted.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">If
you are putting a real production system together, I'm not so
comfortable doing that by blogs/forums and small shreds of
evidence that a technology exists. <br>
</blockquote>
I think the major advantage of open source technologies is generally
not so much the good documentation but the fact that in case of
problems everybody is free to investigate and possibly fix them, to
have an online connection to the helpful developers (try that in
case of problems with commercial products).<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Now
on to your challenge, Alan. Could I write something like CDO,
sure, most of us could. Would you want to? Probably not.
<br>
</blockquote>
So, what's the value in suggesting it eagerly?<br>
<br>
Cheers<br>
/Eike<br>
<br>
----<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.esc-net.de">http://www.esc-net.de</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://thegordian.blogspot.com">http://thegordian.blogspot.com</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://twitter.com/eikestepper">http://twitter.com/eikestepper</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</body>
</html>
-
Attachment: fdiechdh.png
(Size: 22.60KB, Downloaded 25 times)
|
|
|
| Re: Hello World CDO [message #880340 is a reply to message #880265] |
Fri, 01 June 2012 17:04 |
Eike Stepper
Messages: 5153
Registered: July 2009 |
Senior Member |
|
|
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
Am 01.06.2012 20:16, schrieb Allan Chase:
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Seems
like I have struck a chord. So now you've apparently caught a
fraction of my overall frustration </blockquote>
Frustration about what? The lack of documentation that *some*
commercial (read: expensive) frameworks? Are you willing to pay for
better documentation?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">and
that was the intent.
<br>
</blockquote>
No, that wasn't your intent or you'd have found nicer words to make
that clear. Probably just a lack of social skills...<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
<br>
I like your final statement, because it talks about the title of
this thread. What does CDO offer? </blockquote>
Have a look at the documentation:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/documentation">http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/documentation</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Is
there enough documentation (low level, real code, real samples)
that can discuss using CDO as a model repository vs. as a runtime
persistence mechanism? </blockquote>
Certainly there's not enough documentation. Neither the spare time
committers and contributors nor those that come from commercial
consumer companies seem to be willing to invest more into the
documentation than into actual new features or stability
improvements. Have *you* ever contributed back to the free stuff
you're using. With your excellent English language skills you seem
to be predestined.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">And
are there ample execeptions that come back when transactions
fail? </blockquote>
Do you have concrete experiences of insufficient failure feedback?
Bug reports are an adequate means to complain concretely and
constructively. That's also a way to contribute back, and cheap.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Can
you performance and tune such a creature? </blockquote>
The wiki has a lot of hints:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO/Tweaking_Performance">http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO/Tweaking_Performance</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
does the security model work, is it role based or? </blockquote>
In the context of a German research project we currently design a
default security model that helps to configure the low-level hooks
more conveniently. Criticism in the form of constructive suggestions
is most welcome:<br>
<br>
<img src="http://www.eclipse.org/forums/index.php?t=getfile&id=10010" alt=""><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
well does it recover from catastrophic errors? </blockquote>
That's backend-specific. The default DBStore relies on the
mechanisms that exist in the physical SQL database that's used and
supports additional crash detection and automatic recovery of the
internal counters.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
exactly does the offline clone & fail over work. </blockquote>
Granted, here we lack of documentation. Funny, just the other day
another forum user offered to write a respective tutorial once he's
mastered it with my forum help ;-)<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Does
anyone know </blockquote>
Who knows that?!<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">or
do you just "trust" that it works? <br>
</blockquote>
I never even trust existing documentation but always look into the
source code of the technologies I use. But that requires to learn
the tools needed to check it out.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">The
point of this whole tyrade was to suggest that if you put
something out there, document the hell out of it so we can
understand it </blockquote>
Generally that suggestion would have been valid (though not new).
You're just very bad in using the right words to make us listen.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">and
make it easy to get your samples. </blockquote>
All builds on our nice downloads page
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/downloads">http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/downloads</a> contain source bundles for
everything including the examples and the tests.<br>
<br>
We describe exactly how to install the sources (that include the
examples): <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO_Source_Installation">http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO_Source_Installation</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">I
found some CDO site hosted via CVS</blockquote>
Where?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
and they said just point to this and download it. </blockquote>
Who?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Well,
when you do that in Eclipse, it starts asking for
usernames/passwords and all this stuff which wasn't PUBLISHED. </blockquote>
Do what?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">The
part that I do overlook is all the spelling and grammatical
mistakes within a professional product, </blockquote>
A mistake; use your English eloquence to fix them!<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">but
all in all, the concepts and the intent should be clear. <br>
</blockquote>
Granted.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">If
you are putting a real production system together, I'm not so
comfortable doing that by blogs/forums and small shreds of
evidence that a technology exists. <br>
</blockquote>
I think the major advantage of open source technologies is generally
not so much the good documentation but the fact that in case of
problems everybody is free to investigate and possibly fix them, to
have an online connection to the helpful developers (try that in
case of problems with commercial products).<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Now
on to your challenge, Alan. Could I write something like CDO,
sure, most of us could. Would you want to? Probably not.
<br>
</blockquote>
So, what's the value in suggesting it eagerly?<br>
<br>
Cheers<br>
/Eike<br>
<br>
----<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.esc-net.de">http://www.esc-net.de</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://thegordian.blogspot.com">http://thegordian.blogspot.com</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://twitter.com/eikestepper">http://twitter.com/eikestepper</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</body>
</html>
-
Attachment: fdiechdh.png
(Size: 22.60KB, Downloaded 23 times)
|
|
|
| Re: Hello World CDO [message #880342 is a reply to message #880265] |
Fri, 01 June 2012 17:04 |
Eike Stepper
Messages: 5153
Registered: July 2009 |
Senior Member |
|
|
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
Am 01.06.2012 20:16, schrieb Allan Chase:
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Seems
like I have struck a chord. So now you've apparently caught a
fraction of my overall frustration </blockquote>
Frustration about what? The lack of documentation that *some*
commercial (read: expensive) frameworks? Are you willing to pay for
better documentation?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">and
that was the intent.
<br>
</blockquote>
No, that wasn't your intent or you'd have found nicer words to make
that clear. Probably just a lack of social skills...<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
<br>
I like your final statement, because it talks about the title of
this thread. What does CDO offer? </blockquote>
Have a look at the documentation:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/documentation">http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/documentation</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Is
there enough documentation (low level, real code, real samples)
that can discuss using CDO as a model repository vs. as a runtime
persistence mechanism? </blockquote>
Certainly there's not enough documentation. Neither the spare time
committers and contributors nor those that come from commercial
consumer companies seem to be willing to invest more into the
documentation than into actual new features or stability
improvements. Have *you* ever contributed back to the free stuff
you're using. With your excellent English language skills you seem
to be predestined.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">And
are there ample execeptions that come back when transactions
fail? </blockquote>
Do you have concrete experiences of insufficient failure feedback?
Bug reports are an adequate means to complain concretely and
constructively. That's also a way to contribute back, and cheap.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Can
you performance and tune such a creature? </blockquote>
The wiki has a lot of hints:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO/Tweaking_Performance">http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO/Tweaking_Performance</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
does the security model work, is it role based or? </blockquote>
In the context of a German research project we currently design a
default security model that helps to configure the low-level hooks
more conveniently. Criticism in the form of constructive suggestions
is most welcome:<br>
<br>
<img src="http://www.eclipse.org/forums/index.php?t=getfile&id=10011" alt=""><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
well does it recover from catastrophic errors? </blockquote>
That's backend-specific. The default DBStore relies on the
mechanisms that exist in the physical SQL database that's used and
supports additional crash detection and automatic recovery of the
internal counters.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
exactly does the offline clone & fail over work. </blockquote>
Granted, here we lack of documentation. Funny, just the other day
another forum user offered to write a respective tutorial once he's
mastered it with my forum help ;-)<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Does
anyone know </blockquote>
Who knows that?!<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">or
do you just "trust" that it works? <br>
</blockquote>
I never even trust existing documentation but always look into the
source code of the technologies I use. But that requires to learn
the tools needed to check it out.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">The
point of this whole tyrade was to suggest that if you put
something out there, document the hell out of it so we can
understand it </blockquote>
Generally that suggestion would have been valid (though not new).
You're just very bad in using the right words to make us listen.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">and
make it easy to get your samples. </blockquote>
All builds on our nice downloads page
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/downloads">http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/downloads</a> contain source bundles for
everything including the examples and the tests.<br>
<br>
We describe exactly how to install the sources (that include the
examples): <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO_Source_Installation">http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO_Source_Installation</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">I
found some CDO site hosted via CVS</blockquote>
Where?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
and they said just point to this and download it. </blockquote>
Who?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Well,
when you do that in Eclipse, it starts asking for
usernames/passwords and all this stuff which wasn't PUBLISHED. </blockquote>
Do what?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">The
part that I do overlook is all the spelling and grammatical
mistakes within a professional product, </blockquote>
A mistake; use your English eloquence to fix them!<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">but
all in all, the concepts and the intent should be clear. <br>
</blockquote>
Granted.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">If
you are putting a real production system together, I'm not so
comfortable doing that by blogs/forums and small shreds of
evidence that a technology exists. <br>
</blockquote>
I think the major advantage of open source technologies is generally
not so much the good documentation but the fact that in case of
problems everybody is free to investigate and possibly fix them, to
have an online connection to the helpful developers (try that in
case of problems with commercial products).<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Now
on to your challenge, Alan. Could I write something like CDO,
sure, most of us could. Would you want to? Probably not.
<br>
</blockquote>
So, what's the value in suggesting it eagerly?<br>
<br>
Cheers<br>
/Eike<br>
<br>
----<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.esc-net.de">http://www.esc-net.de</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://thegordian.blogspot.com">http://thegordian.blogspot.com</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://twitter.com/eikestepper">http://twitter.com/eikestepper</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</body>
</html>
-
Attachment: fdiechdh.png
(Size: 22.60KB, Downloaded 25 times)
|
|
|
| Re: Hello World CDO [message #880345 is a reply to message #880265] |
Fri, 01 June 2012 17:04 |
Eike Stepper
Messages: 5153
Registered: July 2009 |
Senior Member |
|
|
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
Am 01.06.2012 20:16, schrieb Allan Chase:
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Seems
like I have struck a chord. So now you've apparently caught a
fraction of my overall frustration </blockquote>
Frustration about what? The lack of documentation that *some*
commercial (read: expensive) frameworks? Are you willing to pay for
better documentation?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">and
that was the intent.
<br>
</blockquote>
No, that wasn't your intent or you'd have found nicer words to make
that clear. Probably just a lack of social skills...<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
<br>
I like your final statement, because it talks about the title of
this thread. What does CDO offer? </blockquote>
Have a look at the documentation:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/documentation">http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/documentation</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Is
there enough documentation (low level, real code, real samples)
that can discuss using CDO as a model repository vs. as a runtime
persistence mechanism? </blockquote>
Certainly there's not enough documentation. Neither the spare time
committers and contributors nor those that come from commercial
consumer companies seem to be willing to invest more into the
documentation than into actual new features or stability
improvements. Have *you* ever contributed back to the free stuff
you're using. With your excellent English language skills you seem
to be predestined.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">And
are there ample execeptions that come back when transactions
fail? </blockquote>
Do you have concrete experiences of insufficient failure feedback?
Bug reports are an adequate means to complain concretely and
constructively. That's also a way to contribute back, and cheap.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Can
you performance and tune such a creature? </blockquote>
The wiki has a lot of hints:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO/Tweaking_Performance">http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO/Tweaking_Performance</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
does the security model work, is it role based or? </blockquote>
In the context of a German research project we currently design a
default security model that helps to configure the low-level hooks
more conveniently. Criticism in the form of constructive suggestions
is most welcome:<br>
<br>
<img src="http://www.eclipse.org/forums/index.php?t=getfile&id=10012" alt=""><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
well does it recover from catastrophic errors? </blockquote>
That's backend-specific. The default DBStore relies on the
mechanisms that exist in the physical SQL database that's used and
supports additional crash detection and automatic recovery of the
internal counters.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
exactly does the offline clone & fail over work. </blockquote>
Granted, here we lack of documentation. Funny, just the other day
another forum user offered to write a respective tutorial once he's
mastered it with my forum help ;-)<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Does
anyone know </blockquote>
Who knows that?!<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">or
do you just "trust" that it works? <br>
</blockquote>
I never even trust existing documentation but always look into the
source code of the technologies I use. But that requires to learn
the tools needed to check it out.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">The
point of this whole tyrade was to suggest that if you put
something out there, document the hell out of it so we can
understand it </blockquote>
Generally that suggestion would have been valid (though not new).
You're just very bad in using the right words to make us listen.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">and
make it easy to get your samples. </blockquote>
All builds on our nice downloads page
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/downloads">http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/downloads</a> contain source bundles for
everything including the examples and the tests.<br>
<br>
We describe exactly how to install the sources (that include the
examples): <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO_Source_Installation">http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO_Source_Installation</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">I
found some CDO site hosted via CVS</blockquote>
Where?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
and they said just point to this and download it. </blockquote>
Who?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Well,
when you do that in Eclipse, it starts asking for
usernames/passwords and all this stuff which wasn't PUBLISHED. </blockquote>
Do what?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">The
part that I do overlook is all the spelling and grammatical
mistakes within a professional product, </blockquote>
A mistake; use your English eloquence to fix them!<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">but
all in all, the concepts and the intent should be clear. <br>
</blockquote>
Granted.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">If
you are putting a real production system together, I'm not so
comfortable doing that by blogs/forums and small shreds of
evidence that a technology exists. <br>
</blockquote>
I think the major advantage of open source technologies is generally
not so much the good documentation but the fact that in case of
problems everybody is free to investigate and possibly fix them, to
have an online connection to the helpful developers (try that in
case of problems with commercial products).<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Now
on to your challenge, Alan. Could I write something like CDO,
sure, most of us could. Would you want to? Probably not.
<br>
</blockquote>
So, what's the value in suggesting it eagerly?<br>
<br>
Cheers<br>
/Eike<br>
<br>
----<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.esc-net.de">http://www.esc-net.de</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://thegordian.blogspot.com">http://thegordian.blogspot.com</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://twitter.com/eikestepper">http://twitter.com/eikestepper</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</body>
</html>
-
Attachment: fdiechdh.png
(Size: 22.60KB, Downloaded 30 times)
|
|
|
| Re: Hello World CDO [message #880347 is a reply to message #880265] |
Fri, 01 June 2012 17:04 |
Eike Stepper
Messages: 5153
Registered: July 2009 |
Senior Member |
|
|
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
Am 01.06.2012 20:16, schrieb Allan Chase:
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Seems
like I have struck a chord. So now you've apparently caught a
fraction of my overall frustration </blockquote>
Frustration about what? The lack of documentation that *some*
commercial (read: expensive) frameworks? Are you willing to pay for
better documentation?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">and
that was the intent.
<br>
</blockquote>
No, that wasn't your intent or you'd have found nicer words to make
that clear. Probably just a lack of social skills...<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
<br>
I like your final statement, because it talks about the title of
this thread. What does CDO offer? </blockquote>
Have a look at the documentation:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/documentation">http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/documentation</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Is
there enough documentation (low level, real code, real samples)
that can discuss using CDO as a model repository vs. as a runtime
persistence mechanism? </blockquote>
Certainly there's not enough documentation. Neither the spare time
committers and contributors nor those that come from commercial
consumer companies seem to be willing to invest more into the
documentation than into actual new features or stability
improvements. Have *you* ever contributed back to the free stuff
you're using. With your excellent English language skills you seem
to be predestined.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">And
are there ample execeptions that come back when transactions
fail? </blockquote>
Do you have concrete experiences of insufficient failure feedback?
Bug reports are an adequate means to complain concretely and
constructively. That's also a way to contribute back, and cheap.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Can
you performance and tune such a creature? </blockquote>
The wiki has a lot of hints:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO/Tweaking_Performance">http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO/Tweaking_Performance</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
does the security model work, is it role based or? </blockquote>
In the context of a German research project we currently design a
default security model that helps to configure the low-level hooks
more conveniently. Criticism in the form of constructive suggestions
is most welcome:<br>
<br>
<img src="http://www.eclipse.org/forums/index.php?t=getfile&id=10013" alt=""><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
well does it recover from catastrophic errors? </blockquote>
That's backend-specific. The default DBStore relies on the
mechanisms that exist in the physical SQL database that's used and
supports additional crash detection and automatic recovery of the
internal counters.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
exactly does the offline clone & fail over work. </blockquote>
Granted, here we lack of documentation. Funny, just the other day
another forum user offered to write a respective tutorial once he's
mastered it with my forum help ;-)<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Does
anyone know </blockquote>
Who knows that?!<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">or
do you just "trust" that it works? <br>
</blockquote>
I never even trust existing documentation but always look into the
source code of the technologies I use. But that requires to learn
the tools needed to check it out.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">The
point of this whole tyrade was to suggest that if you put
something out there, document the hell out of it so we can
understand it </blockquote>
Generally that suggestion would have been valid (though not new).
You're just very bad in using the right words to make us listen.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">and
make it easy to get your samples. </blockquote>
All builds on our nice downloads page
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/downloads">http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/downloads</a> contain source bundles for
everything including the examples and the tests.<br>
<br>
We describe exactly how to install the sources (that include the
examples): <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO_Source_Installation">http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO_Source_Installation</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">I
found some CDO site hosted via CVS</blockquote>
Where?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
and they said just point to this and download it. </blockquote>
Who?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Well,
when you do that in Eclipse, it starts asking for
usernames/passwords and all this stuff which wasn't PUBLISHED. </blockquote>
Do what?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">The
part that I do overlook is all the spelling and grammatical
mistakes within a professional product, </blockquote>
A mistake; use your English eloquence to fix them!<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">but
all in all, the concepts and the intent should be clear. <br>
</blockquote>
Granted.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">If
you are putting a real production system together, I'm not so
comfortable doing that by blogs/forums and small shreds of
evidence that a technology exists. <br>
</blockquote>
I think the major advantage of open source technologies is generally
not so much the good documentation but the fact that in case of
problems everybody is free to investigate and possibly fix them, to
have an online connection to the helpful developers (try that in
case of problems with commercial products).<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Now
on to your challenge, Alan. Could I write something like CDO,
sure, most of us could. Would you want to? Probably not.
<br>
</blockquote>
So, what's the value in suggesting it eagerly?<br>
<br>
Cheers<br>
/Eike<br>
<br>
----<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.esc-net.de">http://www.esc-net.de</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://thegordian.blogspot.com">http://thegordian.blogspot.com</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://twitter.com/eikestepper">http://twitter.com/eikestepper</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</body>
</html>
-
Attachment: fdiechdh.png
(Size: 22.60KB, Downloaded 22 times)
|
|
|
| Re: Hello World CDO [message #880349 is a reply to message #880265] |
Fri, 01 June 2012 17:04 |
Eike Stepper
Messages: 5153
Registered: July 2009 |
Senior Member |
|
|
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
Am 01.06.2012 20:16, schrieb Allan Chase:
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Seems
like I have struck a chord. So now you've apparently caught a
fraction of my overall frustration </blockquote>
Frustration about what? The lack of documentation that *some*
commercial (read: expensive) frameworks? Are you willing to pay for
better documentation?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">and
that was the intent.
<br>
</blockquote>
No, that wasn't your intent or you'd have found nicer words to make
that clear. Probably just a lack of social skills...<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
<br>
I like your final statement, because it talks about the title of
this thread. What does CDO offer? </blockquote>
Have a look at the documentation:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/documentation">http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/documentation</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Is
there enough documentation (low level, real code, real samples)
that can discuss using CDO as a model repository vs. as a runtime
persistence mechanism? </blockquote>
Certainly there's not enough documentation. Neither the spare time
committers and contributors nor those that come from commercial
consumer companies seem to be willing to invest more into the
documentation than into actual new features or stability
improvements. Have *you* ever contributed back to the free stuff
you're using. With your excellent English language skills you seem
to be predestined.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">And
are there ample execeptions that come back when transactions
fail? </blockquote>
Do you have concrete experiences of insufficient failure feedback?
Bug reports are an adequate means to complain concretely and
constructively. That's also a way to contribute back, and cheap.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Can
you performance and tune such a creature? </blockquote>
The wiki has a lot of hints:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO/Tweaking_Performance">http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO/Tweaking_Performance</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
does the security model work, is it role based or? </blockquote>
In the context of a German research project we currently design a
default security model that helps to configure the low-level hooks
more conveniently. Criticism in the form of constructive suggestions
is most welcome:<br>
<br>
<img src="http://www.eclipse.org/forums/index.php?t=getfile&id=10014" alt=""><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
well does it recover from catastrophic errors? </blockquote>
That's backend-specific. The default DBStore relies on the
mechanisms that exist in the physical SQL database that's used and
supports additional crash detection and automatic recovery of the
internal counters.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
exactly does the offline clone & fail over work. </blockquote>
Granted, here we lack of documentation. Funny, just the other day
another forum user offered to write a respective tutorial once he's
mastered it with my forum help ;-)<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Does
anyone know </blockquote>
Who knows that?!<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">or
do you just "trust" that it works? <br>
</blockquote>
I never even trust existing documentation but always look into the
source code of the technologies I use. But that requires to learn
the tools needed to check it out.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">The
point of this whole tyrade was to suggest that if you put
something out there, document the hell out of it so we can
understand it </blockquote>
Generally that suggestion would have been valid (though not new).
You're just very bad in using the right words to make us listen.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">and
make it easy to get your samples. </blockquote>
All builds on our nice downloads page
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/downloads">http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/downloads</a> contain source bundles for
everything including the examples and the tests.<br>
<br>
We describe exactly how to install the sources (that include the
examples): <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO_Source_Installation">http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO_Source_Installation</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">I
found some CDO site hosted via CVS</blockquote>
Where?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
and they said just point to this and download it. </blockquote>
Who?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Well,
when you do that in Eclipse, it starts asking for
usernames/passwords and all this stuff which wasn't PUBLISHED. </blockquote>
Do what?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">The
part that I do overlook is all the spelling and grammatical
mistakes within a professional product, </blockquote>
A mistake; use your English eloquence to fix them!<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">but
all in all, the concepts and the intent should be clear. <br>
</blockquote>
Granted.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">If
you are putting a real production system together, I'm not so
comfortable doing that by blogs/forums and small shreds of
evidence that a technology exists. <br>
</blockquote>
I think the major advantage of open source technologies is generally
not so much the good documentation but the fact that in case of
problems everybody is free to investigate and possibly fix them, to
have an online connection to the helpful developers (try that in
case of problems with commercial products).<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Now
on to your challenge, Alan. Could I write something like CDO,
sure, most of us could. Would you want to? Probably not.
<br>
</blockquote>
So, what's the value in suggesting it eagerly?<br>
<br>
Cheers<br>
/Eike<br>
<br>
----<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.esc-net.de">http://www.esc-net.de</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://thegordian.blogspot.com">http://thegordian.blogspot.com</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://twitter.com/eikestepper">http://twitter.com/eikestepper</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</body>
</html>
-
Attachment: fdiechdh.png
(Size: 22.60KB, Downloaded 20 times)
|
|
|
| Re: Hello World CDO [message #880352 is a reply to message #880265] |
Fri, 01 June 2012 17:04 |
Eike Stepper
Messages: 5153
Registered: July 2009 |
Senior Member |
|
|
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
Am 01.06.2012 20:16, schrieb Allan Chase:
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Seems
like I have struck a chord. So now you've apparently caught a
fraction of my overall frustration </blockquote>
Frustration about what? The lack of documentation that *some*
commercial (read: expensive) frameworks? Are you willing to pay for
better documentation?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">and
that was the intent.
<br>
</blockquote>
No, that wasn't your intent or you'd have found nicer words to make
that clear. Probably just a lack of social skills...<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
<br>
I like your final statement, because it talks about the title of
this thread. What does CDO offer? </blockquote>
Have a look at the documentation:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/documentation">http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/documentation</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Is
there enough documentation (low level, real code, real samples)
that can discuss using CDO as a model repository vs. as a runtime
persistence mechanism? </blockquote>
Certainly there's not enough documentation. Neither the spare time
committers and contributors nor those that come from commercial
consumer companies seem to be willing to invest more into the
documentation than into actual new features or stability
improvements. Have *you* ever contributed back to the free stuff
you're using. With your excellent English language skills you seem
to be predestined.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">And
are there ample execeptions that come back when transactions
fail? </blockquote>
Do you have concrete experiences of insufficient failure feedback?
Bug reports are an adequate means to complain concretely and
constructively. That's also a way to contribute back, and cheap.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Can
you performance and tune such a creature? </blockquote>
The wiki has a lot of hints:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO/Tweaking_Performance">http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO/Tweaking_Performance</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
does the security model work, is it role based or? </blockquote>
In the context of a German research project we currently design a
default security model that helps to configure the low-level hooks
more conveniently. Criticism in the form of constructive suggestions
is most welcome:<br>
<br>
<img src="http://www.eclipse.org/forums/index.php?t=getfile&id=10015" alt=""><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
well does it recover from catastrophic errors? </blockquote>
That's backend-specific. The default DBStore relies on the
mechanisms that exist in the physical SQL database that's used and
supports additional crash detection and automatic recovery of the
internal counters.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
exactly does the offline clone & fail over work. </blockquote>
Granted, here we lack of documentation. Funny, just the other day
another forum user offered to write a respective tutorial once he's
mastered it with my forum help ;-)<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Does
anyone know </blockquote>
Who knows that?!<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">or
do you just "trust" that it works? <br>
</blockquote>
I never even trust existing documentation but always look into the
source code of the technologies I use. But that requires to learn
the tools needed to check it out.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">The
point of this whole tyrade was to suggest that if you put
something out there, document the hell out of it so we can
understand it </blockquote>
Generally that suggestion would have been valid (though not new).
You're just very bad in using the right words to make us listen.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">and
make it easy to get your samples. </blockquote>
All builds on our nice downloads page
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/downloads">http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/downloads</a> contain source bundles for
everything including the examples and the tests.<br>
<br>
We describe exactly how to install the sources (that include the
examples): <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO_Source_Installation">http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO_Source_Installation</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">I
found some CDO site hosted via CVS</blockquote>
Where?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
and they said just point to this and download it. </blockquote>
Who?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Well,
when you do that in Eclipse, it starts asking for
usernames/passwords and all this stuff which wasn't PUBLISHED. </blockquote>
Do what?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">The
part that I do overlook is all the spelling and grammatical
mistakes within a professional product, </blockquote>
A mistake; use your English eloquence to fix them!<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">but
all in all, the concepts and the intent should be clear. <br>
</blockquote>
Granted.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">If
you are putting a real production system together, I'm not so
comfortable doing that by blogs/forums and small shreds of
evidence that a technology exists. <br>
</blockquote>
I think the major advantage of open source technologies is generally
not so much the good documentation but the fact that in case of
problems everybody is free to investigate and possibly fix them, to
have an online connection to the helpful developers (try that in
case of problems with commercial products).<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Now
on to your challenge, Alan. Could I write something like CDO,
sure, most of us could. Would you want to? Probably not.
<br>
</blockquote>
So, what's the value in suggesting it eagerly?<br>
<br>
Cheers<br>
/Eike<br>
<br>
----<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.esc-net.de">http://www.esc-net.de</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://thegordian.blogspot.com">http://thegordian.blogspot.com</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://twitter.com/eikestepper">http://twitter.com/eikestepper</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</body>
</html>
-
Attachment: fdiechdh.png
(Size: 22.60KB, Downloaded 23 times)
|
|
|
| Re: Hello World CDO [message #880354 is a reply to message #880265] |
Fri, 01 June 2012 17:04 |
Eike Stepper
Messages: 5153
Registered: July 2009 |
Senior Member |
|
|
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
Am 01.06.2012 20:16, schrieb Allan Chase:
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Seems
like I have struck a chord. So now you've apparently caught a
fraction of my overall frustration </blockquote>
Frustration about what? The lack of documentation that *some*
commercial (read: expensive) frameworks? Are you willing to pay for
better documentation?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">and
that was the intent.
<br>
</blockquote>
No, that wasn't your intent or you'd have found nicer words to make
that clear. Probably just a lack of social skills...<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
<br>
I like your final statement, because it talks about the title of
this thread. What does CDO offer? </blockquote>
Have a look at the documentation:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/documentation">http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/documentation</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Is
there enough documentation (low level, real code, real samples)
that can discuss using CDO as a model repository vs. as a runtime
persistence mechanism? </blockquote>
Certainly there's not enough documentation. Neither the spare time
committers and contributors nor those that come from commercial
consumer companies seem to be willing to invest more into the
documentation than into actual new features or stability
improvements. Have *you* ever contributed back to the free stuff
you're using. With your excellent English language skills you seem
to be predestined.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">And
are there ample execeptions that come back when transactions
fail? </blockquote>
Do you have concrete experiences of insufficient failure feedback?
Bug reports are an adequate means to complain concretely and
constructively. That's also a way to contribute back, and cheap.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Can
you performance and tune such a creature? </blockquote>
The wiki has a lot of hints:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO/Tweaking_Performance">http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO/Tweaking_Performance</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
does the security model work, is it role based or? </blockquote>
In the context of a German research project we currently design a
default security model that helps to configure the low-level hooks
more conveniently. Criticism in the form of constructive suggestions
is most welcome:<br>
<br>
<img src="http://www.eclipse.org/forums/index.php?t=getfile&id=10016" alt=""><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
well does it recover from catastrophic errors? </blockquote>
That's backend-specific. The default DBStore relies on the
mechanisms that exist in the physical SQL database that's used and
supports additional crash detection and automatic recovery of the
internal counters.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
exactly does the offline clone & fail over work. </blockquote>
Granted, here we lack of documentation. Funny, just the other day
another forum user offered to write a respective tutorial once he's
mastered it with my forum help ;-)<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Does
anyone know </blockquote>
Who knows that?!<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">or
do you just "trust" that it works? <br>
</blockquote>
I never even trust existing documentation but always look into the
source code of the technologies I use. But that requires to learn
the tools needed to check it out.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">The
point of this whole tyrade was to suggest that if you put
something out there, document the hell out of it so we can
understand it </blockquote>
Generally that suggestion would have been valid (though not new).
You're just very bad in using the right words to make us listen.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">and
make it easy to get your samples. </blockquote>
All builds on our nice downloads page
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/downloads">http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/downloads</a> contain source bundles for
everything including the examples and the tests.<br>
<br>
We describe exactly how to install the sources (that include the
examples): <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO_Source_Installation">http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO_Source_Installation</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">I
found some CDO site hosted via CVS</blockquote>
Where?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
and they said just point to this and download it. </blockquote>
Who?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Well,
when you do that in Eclipse, it starts asking for
usernames/passwords and all this stuff which wasn't PUBLISHED. </blockquote>
Do what?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">The
part that I do overlook is all the spelling and grammatical
mistakes within a professional product, </blockquote>
A mistake; use your English eloquence to fix them!<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">but
all in all, the concepts and the intent should be clear. <br>
</blockquote>
Granted.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">If
you are putting a real production system together, I'm not so
comfortable doing that by blogs/forums and small shreds of
evidence that a technology exists. <br>
</blockquote>
I think the major advantage of open source technologies is generally
not so much the good documentation but the fact that in case of
problems everybody is free to investigate and possibly fix them, to
have an online connection to the helpful developers (try that in
case of problems with commercial products).<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Now
on to your challenge, Alan. Could I write something like CDO,
sure, most of us could. Would you want to? Probably not.
<br>
</blockquote>
So, what's the value in suggesting it eagerly?<br>
<br>
Cheers<br>
/Eike<br>
<br>
----<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.esc-net.de">http://www.esc-net.de</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://thegordian.blogspot.com">http://thegordian.blogspot.com</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://twitter.com/eikestepper">http://twitter.com/eikestepper</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</body>
</html>
-
Attachment: fdiechdh.png
(Size: 22.60KB, Downloaded 32 times)
|
|
|
| Re: Hello World CDO [message #880356 is a reply to message #880265] |
Fri, 01 June 2012 17:04 |
Eike Stepper
Messages: 5153
Registered: July 2009 |
Senior Member |
|
|
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
Am 01.06.2012 20:16, schrieb Allan Chase:
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Seems
like I have struck a chord. So now you've apparently caught a
fraction of my overall frustration </blockquote>
Frustration about what? The lack of documentation that *some*
commercial (read: expensive) frameworks? Are you willing to pay for
better documentation?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">and
that was the intent.
<br>
</blockquote>
No, that wasn't your intent or you'd have found nicer words to make
that clear. Probably just a lack of social skills...<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
<br>
I like your final statement, because it talks about the title of
this thread. What does CDO offer? </blockquote>
Have a look at the documentation:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/documentation">http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/documentation</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Is
there enough documentation (low level, real code, real samples)
that can discuss using CDO as a model repository vs. as a runtime
persistence mechanism? </blockquote>
Certainly there's not enough documentation. Neither the spare time
committers and contributors nor those that come from commercial
consumer companies seem to be willing to invest more into the
documentation than into actual new features or stability
improvements. Have *you* ever contributed back to the free stuff
you're using. With your excellent English language skills you seem
to be predestined.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">And
are there ample execeptions that come back when transactions
fail? </blockquote>
Do you have concrete experiences of insufficient failure feedback?
Bug reports are an adequate means to complain concretely and
constructively. That's also a way to contribute back, and cheap.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Can
you performance and tune such a creature? </blockquote>
The wiki has a lot of hints:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO/Tweaking_Performance">http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO/Tweaking_Performance</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
does the security model work, is it role based or? </blockquote>
In the context of a German research project we currently design a
default security model that helps to configure the low-level hooks
more conveniently. Criticism in the form of constructive suggestions
is most welcome:<br>
<br>
<img src="http://www.eclipse.org/forums/index.php?t=getfile&id=10017" alt=""><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
well does it recover from catastrophic errors? </blockquote>
That's backend-specific. The default DBStore relies on the
mechanisms that exist in the physical SQL database that's used and
supports additional crash detection and automatic recovery of the
internal counters.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
exactly does the offline clone & fail over work. </blockquote>
Granted, here we lack of documentation. Funny, just the other day
another forum user offered to write a respective tutorial once he's
mastered it with my forum help ;-)<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Does
anyone know </blockquote>
Who knows that?!<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">or
do you just "trust" that it works? <br>
</blockquote>
I never even trust existing documentation but always look into the
source code of the technologies I use. But that requires to learn
the tools needed to check it out.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">The
point of this whole tyrade was to suggest that if you put
something out there, document the hell out of it so we can
understand it </blockquote>
Generally that suggestion would have been valid (though not new).
You're just very bad in using the right words to make us listen.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">and
make it easy to get your samples. </blockquote>
All builds on our nice downloads page
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/downloads">http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/downloads</a> contain source bundles for
everything including the examples and the tests.<br>
<br>
We describe exactly how to install the sources (that include the
examples): <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO_Source_Installation">http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO_Source_Installation</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">I
found some CDO site hosted via CVS</blockquote>
Where?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
and they said just point to this and download it. </blockquote>
Who?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Well,
when you do that in Eclipse, it starts asking for
usernames/passwords and all this stuff which wasn't PUBLISHED. </blockquote>
Do what?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">The
part that I do overlook is all the spelling and grammatical
mistakes within a professional product, </blockquote>
A mistake; use your English eloquence to fix them!<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">but
all in all, the concepts and the intent should be clear. <br>
</blockquote>
Granted.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">If
you are putting a real production system together, I'm not so
comfortable doing that by blogs/forums and small shreds of
evidence that a technology exists. <br>
</blockquote>
I think the major advantage of open source technologies is generally
not so much the good documentation but the fact that in case of
problems everybody is free to investigate and possibly fix them, to
have an online connection to the helpful developers (try that in
case of problems with commercial products).<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Now
on to your challenge, Alan. Could I write something like CDO,
sure, most of us could. Would you want to? Probably not.
<br>
</blockquote>
So, what's the value in suggesting it eagerly?<br>
<br>
Cheers<br>
/Eike<br>
<br>
----<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.esc-net.de">http://www.esc-net.de</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://thegordian.blogspot.com">http://thegordian.blogspot.com</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://twitter.com/eikestepper">http://twitter.com/eikestepper</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</body>
</html>
-
Attachment: fdiechdh.png
(Size: 22.60KB, Downloaded 26 times)
|
|
|
| Re: Hello World CDO [message #880358 is a reply to message #880265] |
Fri, 01 June 2012 17:04 |
Eike Stepper
Messages: 5153
Registered: July 2009 |
Senior Member |
|
|
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
Am 01.06.2012 20:16, schrieb Allan Chase:
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Seems
like I have struck a chord. So now you've apparently caught a
fraction of my overall frustration </blockquote>
Frustration about what? The lack of documentation that *some*
commercial (read: expensive) frameworks? Are you willing to pay for
better documentation?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">and
that was the intent.
<br>
</blockquote>
No, that wasn't your intent or you'd have found nicer words to make
that clear. Probably just a lack of social skills...<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
<br>
I like your final statement, because it talks about the title of
this thread. What does CDO offer? </blockquote>
Have a look at the documentation:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/documentation">http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/documentation</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Is
there enough documentation (low level, real code, real samples)
that can discuss using CDO as a model repository vs. as a runtime
persistence mechanism? </blockquote>
Certainly there's not enough documentation. Neither the spare time
committers and contributors nor those that come from commercial
consumer companies seem to be willing to invest more into the
documentation than into actual new features or stability
improvements. Have *you* ever contributed back to the free stuff
you're using. With your excellent English language skills you seem
to be predestined.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">And
are there ample execeptions that come back when transactions
fail? </blockquote>
Do you have concrete experiences of insufficient failure feedback?
Bug reports are an adequate means to complain concretely and
constructively. That's also a way to contribute back, and cheap.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Can
you performance and tune such a creature? </blockquote>
The wiki has a lot of hints:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO/Tweaking_Performance">http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO/Tweaking_Performance</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
does the security model work, is it role based or? </blockquote>
In the context of a German research project we currently design a
default security model that helps to configure the low-level hooks
more conveniently. Criticism in the form of constructive suggestions
is most welcome:<br>
<br>
<img src="http://www.eclipse.org/forums/index.php?t=getfile&id=10018" alt=""><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
well does it recover from catastrophic errors? </blockquote>
That's backend-specific. The default DBStore relies on the
mechanisms that exist in the physical SQL database that's used and
supports additional crash detection and automatic recovery of the
internal counters.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
exactly does the offline clone & fail over work. </blockquote>
Granted, here we lack of documentation. Funny, just the other day
another forum user offered to write a respective tutorial once he's
mastered it with my forum help ;-)<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Does
anyone know </blockquote>
Who knows that?!<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">or
do you just "trust" that it works? <br>
</blockquote>
I never even trust existing documentation but always look into the
source code of the technologies I use. But that requires to learn
the tools needed to check it out.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">The
point of this whole tyrade was to suggest that if you put
something out there, document the hell out of it so we can
understand it </blockquote>
Generally that suggestion would have been valid (though not new).
You're just very bad in using the right words to make us listen.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">and
make it easy to get your samples. </blockquote>
All builds on our nice downloads page
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/downloads">http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/downloads</a> contain source bundles for
everything including the examples and the tests.<br>
<br>
We describe exactly how to install the sources (that include the
examples): <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO_Source_Installation">http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO_Source_Installation</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">I
found some CDO site hosted via CVS</blockquote>
Where?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
and they said just point to this and download it. </blockquote>
Who?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Well,
when you do that in Eclipse, it starts asking for
usernames/passwords and all this stuff which wasn't PUBLISHED. </blockquote>
Do what?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">The
part that I do overlook is all the spelling and grammatical
mistakes within a professional product, </blockquote>
A mistake; use your English eloquence to fix them!<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">but
all in all, the concepts and the intent should be clear. <br>
</blockquote>
Granted.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">If
you are putting a real production system together, I'm not so
comfortable doing that by blogs/forums and small shreds of
evidence that a technology exists. <br>
</blockquote>
I think the major advantage of open source technologies is generally
not so much the good documentation but the fact that in case of
problems everybody is free to investigate and possibly fix them, to
have an online connection to the helpful developers (try that in
case of problems with commercial products).<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Now
on to your challenge, Alan. Could I write something like CDO,
sure, most of us could. Would you want to? Probably not.
<br>
</blockquote>
So, what's the value in suggesting it eagerly?<br>
<br>
Cheers<br>
/Eike<br>
<br>
----<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.esc-net.de">http://www.esc-net.de</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://thegordian.blogspot.com">http://thegordian.blogspot.com</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://twitter.com/eikestepper">http://twitter.com/eikestepper</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</body>
</html>
-
Attachment: fdiechdh.png
(Size: 22.60KB, Downloaded 22 times)
|
|
|
| Re: Hello World CDO [message #880360 is a reply to message #880265] |
Fri, 01 June 2012 17:04 |
Eike Stepper
Messages: 5153
Registered: July 2009 |
Senior Member |
|
|
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
Am 01.06.2012 20:16, schrieb Allan Chase:
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Seems
like I have struck a chord. So now you've apparently caught a
fraction of my overall frustration </blockquote>
Frustration about what? The lack of documentation that *some*
commercial (read: expensive) frameworks? Are you willing to pay for
better documentation?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">and
that was the intent.
<br>
</blockquote>
No, that wasn't your intent or you'd have found nicer words to make
that clear. Probably just a lack of social skills...<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
<br>
I like your final statement, because it talks about the title of
this thread. What does CDO offer? </blockquote>
Have a look at the documentation:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/documentation">http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/documentation</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Is
there enough documentation (low level, real code, real samples)
that can discuss using CDO as a model repository vs. as a runtime
persistence mechanism? </blockquote>
Certainly there's not enough documentation. Neither the spare time
committers and contributors nor those that come from commercial
consumer companies seem to be willing to invest more into the
documentation than into actual new features or stability
improvements. Have *you* ever contributed back to the free stuff
you're using. With your excellent English language skills you seem
to be predestined.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">And
are there ample execeptions that come back when transactions
fail? </blockquote>
Do you have concrete experiences of insufficient failure feedback?
Bug reports are an adequate means to complain concretely and
constructively. That's also a way to contribute back, and cheap.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Can
you performance and tune such a creature? </blockquote>
The wiki has a lot of hints:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO/Tweaking_Performance">http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO/Tweaking_Performance</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
does the security model work, is it role based or? </blockquote>
In the context of a German research project we currently design a
default security model that helps to configure the low-level hooks
more conveniently. Criticism in the form of constructive suggestions
is most welcome:<br>
<br>
<img src="http://www.eclipse.org/forums/index.php?t=getfile&id=10019" alt=""><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
well does it recover from catastrophic errors? </blockquote>
That's backend-specific. The default DBStore relies on the
mechanisms that exist in the physical SQL database that's used and
supports additional crash detection and automatic recovery of the
internal counters.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
exactly does the offline clone & fail over work. </blockquote>
Granted, here we lack of documentation. Funny, just the other day
another forum user offered to write a respective tutorial once he's
mastered it with my forum help ;-)<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Does
anyone know </blockquote>
Who knows that?!<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">or
do you just "trust" that it works? <br>
</blockquote>
I never even trust existing documentation but always look into the
source code of the technologies I use. But that requires to learn
the tools needed to check it out.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">The
point of this whole tyrade was to suggest that if you put
something out there, document the hell out of it so we can
understand it </blockquote>
Generally that suggestion would have been valid (though not new).
You're just very bad in using the right words to make us listen.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">and
make it easy to get your samples. </blockquote>
All builds on our nice downloads page
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/downloads">http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/downloads</a> contain source bundles for
everything including the examples and the tests.<br>
<br>
We describe exactly how to install the sources (that include the
examples): <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO_Source_Installation">http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO_Source_Installation</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">I
found some CDO site hosted via CVS</blockquote>
Where?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
and they said just point to this and download it. </blockquote>
Who?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Well,
when you do that in Eclipse, it starts asking for
usernames/passwords and all this stuff which wasn't PUBLISHED. </blockquote>
Do what?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">The
part that I do overlook is all the spelling and grammatical
mistakes within a professional product, </blockquote>
A mistake; use your English eloquence to fix them!<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">but
all in all, the concepts and the intent should be clear. <br>
</blockquote>
Granted.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">If
you are putting a real production system together, I'm not so
comfortable doing that by blogs/forums and small shreds of
evidence that a technology exists. <br>
</blockquote>
I think the major advantage of open source technologies is generally
not so much the good documentation but the fact that in case of
problems everybody is free to investigate and possibly fix them, to
have an online connection to the helpful developers (try that in
case of problems with commercial products).<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Now
on to your challenge, Alan. Could I write something like CDO,
sure, most of us could. Would you want to? Probably not.
<br>
</blockquote>
So, what's the value in suggesting it eagerly?<br>
<br>
Cheers<br>
/Eike<br>
<br>
----<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.esc-net.de">http://www.esc-net.de</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://thegordian.blogspot.com">http://thegordian.blogspot.com</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://twitter.com/eikestepper">http://twitter.com/eikestepper</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</body>
</html>
-
Attachment: fdiechdh.png
(Size: 22.60KB, Downloaded 19 times)
|
|
|
| Re: Hello World CDO [message #880362 is a reply to message #880265] |
Fri, 01 June 2012 17:04 |
Eike Stepper
Messages: 5153
Registered: July 2009 |
Senior Member |
|
|
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
Am 01.06.2012 20:16, schrieb Allan Chase:
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Seems
like I have struck a chord. So now you've apparently caught a
fraction of my overall frustration </blockquote>
Frustration about what? The lack of documentation that *some*
commercial (read: expensive) frameworks? Are you willing to pay for
better documentation?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">and
that was the intent.
<br>
</blockquote>
No, that wasn't your intent or you'd have found nicer words to make
that clear. Probably just a lack of social skills...<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
<br>
I like your final statement, because it talks about the title of
this thread. What does CDO offer? </blockquote>
Have a look at the documentation:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/documentation">http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/documentation</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Is
there enough documentation (low level, real code, real samples)
that can discuss using CDO as a model repository vs. as a runtime
persistence mechanism? </blockquote>
Certainly there's not enough documentation. Neither the spare time
committers and contributors nor those that come from commercial
consumer companies seem to be willing to invest more into the
documentation than into actual new features or stability
improvements. Have *you* ever contributed back to the free stuff
you're using. With your excellent English language skills you seem
to be predestined.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">And
are there ample execeptions that come back when transactions
fail? </blockquote>
Do you have concrete experiences of insufficient failure feedback?
Bug reports are an adequate means to complain concretely and
constructively. That's also a way to contribute back, and cheap.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Can
you performance and tune such a creature? </blockquote>
The wiki has a lot of hints:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO/Tweaking_Performance">http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO/Tweaking_Performance</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
does the security model work, is it role based or? </blockquote>
In the context of a German research project we currently design a
default security model that helps to configure the low-level hooks
more conveniently. Criticism in the form of constructive suggestions
is most welcome:<br>
<br>
<img src="http://www.eclipse.org/forums/index.php?t=getfile&id=10020" alt=""><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
well does it recover from catastrophic errors? </blockquote>
That's backend-specific. The default DBStore relies on the
mechanisms that exist in the physical SQL database that's used and
supports additional crash detection and automatic recovery of the
internal counters.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
exactly does the offline clone & fail over work. </blockquote>
Granted, here we lack of documentation. Funny, just the other day
another forum user offered to write a respective tutorial once he's
mastered it with my forum help ;-)<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Does
anyone know </blockquote>
Who knows that?!<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">or
do you just "trust" that it works? <br>
</blockquote>
I never even trust existing documentation but always look into the
source code of the technologies I use. But that requires to learn
the tools needed to check it out.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">The
point of this whole tyrade was to suggest that if you put
something out there, document the hell out of it so we can
understand it </blockquote>
Generally that suggestion would have been valid (though not new).
You're just very bad in using the right words to make us listen.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">and
make it easy to get your samples. </blockquote>
All builds on our nice downloads page
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/downloads">http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/downloads</a> contain source bundles for
everything including the examples and the tests.<br>
<br>
We describe exactly how to install the sources (that include the
examples): <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO_Source_Installation">http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO_Source_Installation</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">I
found some CDO site hosted via CVS</blockquote>
Where?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
and they said just point to this and download it. </blockquote>
Who?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Well,
when you do that in Eclipse, it starts asking for
usernames/passwords and all this stuff which wasn't PUBLISHED. </blockquote>
Do what?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">The
part that I do overlook is all the spelling and grammatical
mistakes within a professional product, </blockquote>
A mistake; use your English eloquence to fix them!<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">but
all in all, the concepts and the intent should be clear. <br>
</blockquote>
Granted.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">If
you are putting a real production system together, I'm not so
comfortable doing that by blogs/forums and small shreds of
evidence that a technology exists. <br>
</blockquote>
I think the major advantage of open source technologies is generally
not so much the good documentation but the fact that in case of
problems everybody is free to investigate and possibly fix them, to
have an online connection to the helpful developers (try that in
case of problems with commercial products).<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Now
on to your challenge, Alan. Could I write something like CDO,
sure, most of us could. Would you want to? Probably not.
<br>
</blockquote>
So, what's the value in suggesting it eagerly?<br>
<br>
Cheers<br>
/Eike<br>
<br>
----<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.esc-net.de">http://www.esc-net.de</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://thegordian.blogspot.com">http://thegordian.blogspot.com</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://twitter.com/eikestepper">http://twitter.com/eikestepper</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</body>
</html>
-
Attachment: fdiechdh.png
(Size: 22.60KB, Downloaded 20 times)
|
|
|
| Re: Hello World CDO [message #880364 is a reply to message #880265] |
Fri, 01 June 2012 17:04 |
Eike Stepper
Messages: 5153
Registered: July 2009 |
Senior Member |
|
|
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
Am 01.06.2012 20:16, schrieb Allan Chase:
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Seems
like I have struck a chord. So now you've apparently caught a
fraction of my overall frustration </blockquote>
Frustration about what? The lack of documentation that *some*
commercial (read: expensive) frameworks? Are you willing to pay for
better documentation?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">and
that was the intent.
<br>
</blockquote>
No, that wasn't your intent or you'd have found nicer words to make
that clear. Probably just a lack of social skills...<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
<br>
I like your final statement, because it talks about the title of
this thread. What does CDO offer? </blockquote>
Have a look at the documentation:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/documentation">http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/documentation</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Is
there enough documentation (low level, real code, real samples)
that can discuss using CDO as a model repository vs. as a runtime
persistence mechanism? </blockquote>
Certainly there's not enough documentation. Neither the spare time
committers and contributors nor those that come from commercial
consumer companies seem to be willing to invest more into the
documentation than into actual new features or stability
improvements. Have *you* ever contributed back to the free stuff
you're using. With your excellent English language skills you seem
to be predestined.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">And
are there ample execeptions that come back when transactions
fail? </blockquote>
Do you have concrete experiences of insufficient failure feedback?
Bug reports are an adequate means to complain concretely and
constructively. That's also a way to contribute back, and cheap.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Can
you performance and tune such a creature? </blockquote>
The wiki has a lot of hints:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO/Tweaking_Performance">http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO/Tweaking_Performance</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
does the security model work, is it role based or? </blockquote>
In the context of a German research project we currently design a
default security model that helps to configure the low-level hooks
more conveniently. Criticism in the form of constructive suggestions
is most welcome:<br>
<br>
<img src="http://www.eclipse.org/forums/index.php?t=getfile&id=10021" alt=""><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
well does it recover from catastrophic errors? </blockquote>
That's backend-specific. The default DBStore relies on the
mechanisms that exist in the physical SQL database that's used and
supports additional crash detection and automatic recovery of the
internal counters.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
exactly does the offline clone & fail over work. </blockquote>
Granted, here we lack of documentation. Funny, just the other day
another forum user offered to write a respective tutorial once he's
mastered it with my forum help ;-)<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Does
anyone know </blockquote>
Who knows that?!<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">or
do you just "trust" that it works? <br>
</blockquote>
I never even trust existing documentation but always look into the
source code of the technologies I use. But that requires to learn
the tools needed to check it out.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">The
point of this whole tyrade was to suggest that if you put
something out there, document the hell out of it so we can
understand it </blockquote>
Generally that suggestion would have been valid (though not new).
You're just very bad in using the right words to make us listen.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">and
make it easy to get your samples. </blockquote>
All builds on our nice downloads page
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/downloads">http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/downloads</a> contain source bundles for
everything including the examples and the tests.<br>
<br>
We describe exactly how to install the sources (that include the
examples): <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO_Source_Installation">http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO_Source_Installation</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">I
found some CDO site hosted via CVS</blockquote>
Where?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
and they said just point to this and download it. </blockquote>
Who?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Well,
when you do that in Eclipse, it starts asking for
usernames/passwords and all this stuff which wasn't PUBLISHED. </blockquote>
Do what?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">The
part that I do overlook is all the spelling and grammatical
mistakes within a professional product, </blockquote>
A mistake; use your English eloquence to fix them!<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">but
all in all, the concepts and the intent should be clear. <br>
</blockquote>
Granted.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">If
you are putting a real production system together, I'm not so
comfortable doing that by blogs/forums and small shreds of
evidence that a technology exists. <br>
</blockquote>
I think the major advantage of open source technologies is generally
not so much the good documentation but the fact that in case of
problems everybody is free to investigate and possibly fix them, to
have an online connection to the helpful developers (try that in
case of problems with commercial products).<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Now
on to your challenge, Alan. Could I write something like CDO,
sure, most of us could. Would you want to? Probably not.
<br>
</blockquote>
So, what's the value in suggesting it eagerly?<br>
<br>
Cheers<br>
/Eike<br>
<br>
----<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.esc-net.de">http://www.esc-net.de</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://thegordian.blogspot.com">http://thegordian.blogspot.com</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://twitter.com/eikestepper">http://twitter.com/eikestepper</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</body>
</html>
-
Attachment: fdiechdh.png
(Size: 22.60KB, Downloaded 21 times)
|
|
|
| Re: Hello World CDO [message #880366 is a reply to message #880265] |
Fri, 01 June 2012 17:04 |
Eike Stepper
Messages: 5153
Registered: July 2009 |
Senior Member |
|
|
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
Am 01.06.2012 20:16, schrieb Allan Chase:
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Seems
like I have struck a chord. So now you've apparently caught a
fraction of my overall frustration </blockquote>
Frustration about what? The lack of documentation that *some*
commercial (read: expensive) frameworks? Are you willing to pay for
better documentation?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">and
that was the intent.
<br>
</blockquote>
No, that wasn't your intent or you'd have found nicer words to make
that clear. Probably just a lack of social skills...<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
<br>
I like your final statement, because it talks about the title of
this thread. What does CDO offer? </blockquote>
Have a look at the documentation:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/documentation">http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/documentation</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Is
there enough documentation (low level, real code, real samples)
that can discuss using CDO as a model repository vs. as a runtime
persistence mechanism? </blockquote>
Certainly there's not enough documentation. Neither the spare time
committers and contributors nor those that come from commercial
consumer companies seem to be willing to invest more into the
documentation than into actual new features or stability
improvements. Have *you* ever contributed back to the free stuff
you're using. With your excellent English language skills you seem
to be predestined.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">And
are there ample execeptions that come back when transactions
fail? </blockquote>
Do you have concrete experiences of insufficient failure feedback?
Bug reports are an adequate means to complain concretely and
constructively. That's also a way to contribute back, and cheap.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Can
you performance and tune such a creature? </blockquote>
The wiki has a lot of hints:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO/Tweaking_Performance">http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO/Tweaking_Performance</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
does the security model work, is it role based or? </blockquote>
In the context of a German research project we currently design a
default security model that helps to configure the low-level hooks
more conveniently. Criticism in the form of constructive suggestions
is most welcome:<br>
<br>
<img src="http://www.eclipse.org/forums/index.php?t=getfile&id=10022" alt=""><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
well does it recover from catastrophic errors? </blockquote>
That's backend-specific. The default DBStore relies on the
mechanisms that exist in the physical SQL database that's used and
supports additional crash detection and automatic recovery of the
internal counters.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
exactly does the offline clone & fail over work. </blockquote>
Granted, here we lack of documentation. Funny, just the other day
another forum user offered to write a respective tutorial once he's
mastered it with my forum help ;-)<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Does
anyone know </blockquote>
Who knows that?!<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">or
do you just "trust" that it works? <br>
</blockquote>
I never even trust existing documentation but always look into the
source code of the technologies I use. But that requires to learn
the tools needed to check it out.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">The
point of this whole tyrade was to suggest that if you put
something out there, document the hell out of it so we can
understand it </blockquote>
Generally that suggestion would have been valid (though not new).
You're just very bad in using the right words to make us listen.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">and
make it easy to get your samples. </blockquote>
All builds on our nice downloads page
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/downloads">http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/downloads</a> contain source bundles for
everything including the examples and the tests.<br>
<br>
We describe exactly how to install the sources (that include the
examples): <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO_Source_Installation">http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO_Source_Installation</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">I
found some CDO site hosted via CVS</blockquote>
Where?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
and they said just point to this and download it. </blockquote>
Who?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Well,
when you do that in Eclipse, it starts asking for
usernames/passwords and all this stuff which wasn't PUBLISHED. </blockquote>
Do what?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">The
part that I do overlook is all the spelling and grammatical
mistakes within a professional product, </blockquote>
A mistake; use your English eloquence to fix them!<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">but
all in all, the concepts and the intent should be clear. <br>
</blockquote>
Granted.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">If
you are putting a real production system together, I'm not so
comfortable doing that by blogs/forums and small shreds of
evidence that a technology exists. <br>
</blockquote>
I think the major advantage of open source technologies is generally
not so much the good documentation but the fact that in case of
problems everybody is free to investigate and possibly fix them, to
have an online connection to the helpful developers (try that in
case of problems with commercial products).<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Now
on to your challenge, Alan. Could I write something like CDO,
sure, most of us could. Would you want to? Probably not.
<br>
</blockquote>
So, what's the value in suggesting it eagerly?<br>
<br>
Cheers<br>
/Eike<br>
<br>
----<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.esc-net.de">http://www.esc-net.de</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://thegordian.blogspot.com">http://thegordian.blogspot.com</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://twitter.com/eikestepper">http://twitter.com/eikestepper</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</body>
</html>
-
Attachment: fdiechdh.png
(Size: 22.60KB, Downloaded 21 times)
|
|
|
| Re: Hello World CDO [message #880368 is a reply to message #880265] |
Fri, 01 June 2012 17:04 |
Eike Stepper
Messages: 5153
Registered: July 2009 |
Senior Member |
|
|
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
Am 01.06.2012 20:16, schrieb Allan Chase:
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Seems
like I have struck a chord. So now you've apparently caught a
fraction of my overall frustration </blockquote>
Frustration about what? The lack of documentation that *some*
commercial (read: expensive) frameworks? Are you willing to pay for
better documentation?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">and
that was the intent.
<br>
</blockquote>
No, that wasn't your intent or you'd have found nicer words to make
that clear. Probably just a lack of social skills...<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
<br>
I like your final statement, because it talks about the title of
this thread. What does CDO offer? </blockquote>
Have a look at the documentation:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/documentation">http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/documentation</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Is
there enough documentation (low level, real code, real samples)
that can discuss using CDO as a model repository vs. as a runtime
persistence mechanism? </blockquote>
Certainly there's not enough documentation. Neither the spare time
committers and contributors nor those that come from commercial
consumer companies seem to be willing to invest more into the
documentation than into actual new features or stability
improvements. Have *you* ever contributed back to the free stuff
you're using. With your excellent English language skills you seem
to be predestined.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">And
are there ample execeptions that come back when transactions
fail? </blockquote>
Do you have concrete experiences of insufficient failure feedback?
Bug reports are an adequate means to complain concretely and
constructively. That's also a way to contribute back, and cheap.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Can
you performance and tune such a creature? </blockquote>
The wiki has a lot of hints:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO/Tweaking_Performance">http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO/Tweaking_Performance</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
does the security model work, is it role based or? </blockquote>
In the context of a German research project we currently design a
default security model that helps to configure the low-level hooks
more conveniently. Criticism in the form of constructive suggestions
is most welcome:<br>
<br>
<img src="http://www.eclipse.org/forums/index.php?t=getfile&id=10023" alt=""><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
well does it recover from catastrophic errors? </blockquote>
That's backend-specific. The default DBStore relies on the
mechanisms that exist in the physical SQL database that's used and
supports additional crash detection and automatic recovery of the
internal counters.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
exactly does the offline clone & fail over work. </blockquote>
Granted, here we lack of documentation. Funny, just the other day
another forum user offered to write a respective tutorial once he's
mastered it with my forum help ;-)<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Does
anyone know </blockquote>
Who knows that?!<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">or
do you just "trust" that it works? <br>
</blockquote>
I never even trust existing documentation but always look into the
source code of the technologies I use. But that requires to learn
the tools needed to check it out.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">The
point of this whole tyrade was to suggest that if you put
something out there, document the hell out of it so we can
understand it </blockquote>
Generally that suggestion would have been valid (though not new).
You're just very bad in using the right words to make us listen.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">and
make it easy to get your samples. </blockquote>
All builds on our nice downloads page
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/downloads">http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/downloads</a> contain source bundles for
everything including the examples and the tests.<br>
<br>
We describe exactly how to install the sources (that include the
examples): <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO_Source_Installation">http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO_Source_Installation</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">I
found some CDO site hosted via CVS</blockquote>
Where?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
and they said just point to this and download it. </blockquote>
Who?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Well,
when you do that in Eclipse, it starts asking for
usernames/passwords and all this stuff which wasn't PUBLISHED. </blockquote>
Do what?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">The
part that I do overlook is all the spelling and grammatical
mistakes within a professional product, </blockquote>
A mistake; use your English eloquence to fix them!<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">but
all in all, the concepts and the intent should be clear. <br>
</blockquote>
Granted.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">If
you are putting a real production system together, I'm not so
comfortable doing that by blogs/forums and small shreds of
evidence that a technology exists. <br>
</blockquote>
I think the major advantage of open source technologies is generally
not so much the good documentation but the fact that in case of
problems everybody is free to investigate and possibly fix them, to
have an online connection to the helpful developers (try that in
case of problems with commercial products).<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Now
on to your challenge, Alan. Could I write something like CDO,
sure, most of us could. Would you want to? Probably not.
<br>
</blockquote>
So, what's the value in suggesting it eagerly?<br>
<br>
Cheers<br>
/Eike<br>
<br>
----<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.esc-net.de">http://www.esc-net.de</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://thegordian.blogspot.com">http://thegordian.blogspot.com</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://twitter.com/eikestepper">http://twitter.com/eikestepper</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</body>
</html>
-
Attachment: fdiechdh.png
(Size: 22.60KB, Downloaded 28 times)
|
|
|
| Re: Hello World CDO [message #880370 is a reply to message #880265] |
Fri, 01 June 2012 17:04 |
Eike Stepper
Messages: 5153
Registered: July 2009 |
Senior Member |
|
|
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
Am 01.06.2012 20:16, schrieb Allan Chase:
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Seems
like I have struck a chord. So now you've apparently caught a
fraction of my overall frustration </blockquote>
Frustration about what? The lack of documentation that *some*
commercial (read: expensive) frameworks? Are you willing to pay for
better documentation?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">and
that was the intent.
<br>
</blockquote>
No, that wasn't your intent or you'd have found nicer words to make
that clear. Probably just a lack of social skills...<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
<br>
I like your final statement, because it talks about the title of
this thread. What does CDO offer? </blockquote>
Have a look at the documentation:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/documentation">http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/documentation</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Is
there enough documentation (low level, real code, real samples)
that can discuss using CDO as a model repository vs. as a runtime
persistence mechanism? </blockquote>
Certainly there's not enough documentation. Neither the spare time
committers and contributors nor those that come from commercial
consumer companies seem to be willing to invest more into the
documentation than into actual new features or stability
improvements. Have *you* ever contributed back to the free stuff
you're using. With your excellent English language skills you seem
to be predestined.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">And
are there ample execeptions that come back when transactions
fail? </blockquote>
Do you have concrete experiences of insufficient failure feedback?
Bug reports are an adequate means to complain concretely and
constructively. That's also a way to contribute back, and cheap.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Can
you performance and tune such a creature? </blockquote>
The wiki has a lot of hints:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO/Tweaking_Performance">http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO/Tweaking_Performance</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
does the security model work, is it role based or? </blockquote>
In the context of a German research project we currently design a
default security model that helps to configure the low-level hooks
more conveniently. Criticism in the form of constructive suggestions
is most welcome:<br>
<br>
<img src="http://www.eclipse.org/forums/index.php?t=getfile&id=10024" alt=""><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
well does it recover from catastrophic errors? </blockquote>
That's backend-specific. The default DBStore relies on the
mechanisms that exist in the physical SQL database that's used and
supports additional crash detection and automatic recovery of the
internal counters.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
exactly does the offline clone & fail over work. </blockquote>
Granted, here we lack of documentation. Funny, just the other day
another forum user offered to write a respective tutorial once he's
mastered it with my forum help ;-)<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Does
anyone know </blockquote>
Who knows that?!<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">or
do you just "trust" that it works? <br>
</blockquote>
I never even trust existing documentation but always look into the
source code of the technologies I use. But that requires to learn
the tools needed to check it out.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">The
point of this whole tyrade was to suggest that if you put
something out there, document the hell out of it so we can
understand it </blockquote>
Generally that suggestion would have been valid (though not new).
You're just very bad in using the right words to make us listen.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">and
make it easy to get your samples. </blockquote>
All builds on our nice downloads page
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/downloads">http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/downloads</a> contain source bundles for
everything including the examples and the tests.<br>
<br>
We describe exactly how to install the sources (that include the
examples): <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO_Source_Installation">http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO_Source_Installation</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">I
found some CDO site hosted via CVS</blockquote>
Where?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
and they said just point to this and download it. </blockquote>
Who?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Well,
when you do that in Eclipse, it starts asking for
usernames/passwords and all this stuff which wasn't PUBLISHED. </blockquote>
Do what?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">The
part that I do overlook is all the spelling and grammatical
mistakes within a professional product, </blockquote>
A mistake; use your English eloquence to fix them!<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">but
all in all, the concepts and the intent should be clear. <br>
</blockquote>
Granted.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">If
you are putting a real production system together, I'm not so
comfortable doing that by blogs/forums and small shreds of
evidence that a technology exists. <br>
</blockquote>
I think the major advantage of open source technologies is generally
not so much the good documentation but the fact that in case of
problems everybody is free to investigate and possibly fix them, to
have an online connection to the helpful developers (try that in
case of problems with commercial products).<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Now
on to your challenge, Alan. Could I write something like CDO,
sure, most of us could. Would you want to? Probably not.
<br>
</blockquote>
So, what's the value in suggesting it eagerly?<br>
<br>
Cheers<br>
/Eike<br>
<br>
----<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.esc-net.de">http://www.esc-net.de</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://thegordian.blogspot.com">http://thegordian.blogspot.com</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://twitter.com/eikestepper">http://twitter.com/eikestepper</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</body>
</html>
-
Attachment: fdiechdh.png
(Size: 22.60KB, Downloaded 28 times)
|
|
|
| Re: Hello World CDO [message #880372 is a reply to message #880265] |
Fri, 01 June 2012 17:04 |
Eike Stepper
Messages: 5153
Registered: July 2009 |
Senior Member |
|
|
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
Am 01.06.2012 20:16, schrieb Allan Chase:
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Seems
like I have struck a chord. So now you've apparently caught a
fraction of my overall frustration </blockquote>
Frustration about what? The lack of documentation that *some*
commercial (read: expensive) frameworks? Are you willing to pay for
better documentation?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">and
that was the intent.
<br>
</blockquote>
No, that wasn't your intent or you'd have found nicer words to make
that clear. Probably just a lack of social skills...<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
<br>
I like your final statement, because it talks about the title of
this thread. What does CDO offer? </blockquote>
Have a look at the documentation:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/documentation">http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/documentation</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Is
there enough documentation (low level, real code, real samples)
that can discuss using CDO as a model repository vs. as a runtime
persistence mechanism? </blockquote>
Certainly there's not enough documentation. Neither the spare time
committers and contributors nor those that come from commercial
consumer companies seem to be willing to invest more into the
documentation than into actual new features or stability
improvements. Have *you* ever contributed back to the free stuff
you're using. With your excellent English language skills you seem
to be predestined.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">And
are there ample execeptions that come back when transactions
fail? </blockquote>
Do you have concrete experiences of insufficient failure feedback?
Bug reports are an adequate means to complain concretely and
constructively. That's also a way to contribute back, and cheap.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Can
you performance and tune such a creature? </blockquote>
The wiki has a lot of hints:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO/Tweaking_Performance">http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO/Tweaking_Performance</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
does the security model work, is it role based or? </blockquote>
In the context of a German research project we currently design a
default security model that helps to configure the low-level hooks
more conveniently. Criticism in the form of constructive suggestions
is most welcome:<br>
<br>
<img src="http://www.eclipse.org/forums/index.php?t=getfile&id=10025" alt=""><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
well does it recover from catastrophic errors? </blockquote>
That's backend-specific. The default DBStore relies on the
mechanisms that exist in the physical SQL database that's used and
supports additional crash detection and automatic recovery of the
internal counters.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
exactly does the offline clone & fail over work. </blockquote>
Granted, here we lack of documentation. Funny, just the other day
another forum user offered to write a respective tutorial once he's
mastered it with my forum help ;-)<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Does
anyone know </blockquote>
Who knows that?!<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">or
do you just "trust" that it works? <br>
</blockquote>
I never even trust existing documentation but always look into the
source code of the technologies I use. But that requires to learn
the tools needed to check it out.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">The
point of this whole tyrade was to suggest that if you put
something out there, document the hell out of it so we can
understand it </blockquote>
Generally that suggestion would have been valid (though not new).
You're just very bad in using the right words to make us listen.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">and
make it easy to get your samples. </blockquote>
All builds on our nice downloads page
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/downloads">http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/downloads</a> contain source bundles for
everything including the examples and the tests.<br>
<br>
We describe exactly how to install the sources (that include the
examples): <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO_Source_Installation">http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO_Source_Installation</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">I
found some CDO site hosted via CVS</blockquote>
Where?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
and they said just point to this and download it. </blockquote>
Who?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Well,
when you do that in Eclipse, it starts asking for
usernames/passwords and all this stuff which wasn't PUBLISHED. </blockquote>
Do what?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">The
part that I do overlook is all the spelling and grammatical
mistakes within a professional product, </blockquote>
A mistake; use your English eloquence to fix them!<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">but
all in all, the concepts and the intent should be clear. <br>
</blockquote>
Granted.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">If
you are putting a real production system together, I'm not so
comfortable doing that by blogs/forums and small shreds of
evidence that a technology exists. <br>
</blockquote>
I think the major advantage of open source technologies is generally
not so much the good documentation but the fact that in case of
problems everybody is free to investigate and possibly fix them, to
have an online connection to the helpful developers (try that in
case of problems with commercial products).<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Now
on to your challenge, Alan. Could I write something like CDO,
sure, most of us could. Would you want to? Probably not.
<br>
</blockquote>
So, what's the value in suggesting it eagerly?<br>
<br>
Cheers<br>
/Eike<br>
<br>
----<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.esc-net.de">http://www.esc-net.de</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://thegordian.blogspot.com">http://thegordian.blogspot.com</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://twitter.com/eikestepper">http://twitter.com/eikestepper</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</body>
</html>
-
Attachment: fdiechdh.png
(Size: 22.60KB, Downloaded 24 times)
|
|
|
| Re: Hello World CDO [message #880374 is a reply to message #880265] |
Fri, 01 June 2012 17:04 |
Eike Stepper
Messages: 5153
Registered: July 2009 |
Senior Member |
|
|
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
Am 01.06.2012 20:16, schrieb Allan Chase:
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Seems
like I have struck a chord. So now you've apparently caught a
fraction of my overall frustration </blockquote>
Frustration about what? The lack of documentation that *some*
commercial (read: expensive) frameworks? Are you willing to pay for
better documentation?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">and
that was the intent.
<br>
</blockquote>
No, that wasn't your intent or you'd have found nicer words to make
that clear. Probably just a lack of social skills...<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
<br>
I like your final statement, because it talks about the title of
this thread. What does CDO offer? </blockquote>
Have a look at the documentation:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/documentation">http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/documentation</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Is
there enough documentation (low level, real code, real samples)
that can discuss using CDO as a model repository vs. as a runtime
persistence mechanism? </blockquote>
Certainly there's not enough documentation. Neither the spare time
committers and contributors nor those that come from commercial
consumer companies seem to be willing to invest more into the
documentation than into actual new features or stability
improvements. Have *you* ever contributed back to the free stuff
you're using. With your excellent English language skills you seem
to be predestined.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">And
are there ample execeptions that come back when transactions
fail? </blockquote>
Do you have concrete experiences of insufficient failure feedback?
Bug reports are an adequate means to complain concretely and
constructively. That's also a way to contribute back, and cheap.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Can
you performance and tune such a creature? </blockquote>
The wiki has a lot of hints:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO/Tweaking_Performance">http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO/Tweaking_Performance</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
does the security model work, is it role based or? </blockquote>
In the context of a German research project we currently design a
default security model that helps to configure the low-level hooks
more conveniently. Criticism in the form of constructive suggestions
is most welcome:<br>
<br>
<img src="http://www.eclipse.org/forums/index.php?t=getfile&id=10026" alt=""><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
well does it recover from catastrophic errors? </blockquote>
That's backend-specific. The default DBStore relies on the
mechanisms that exist in the physical SQL database that's used and
supports additional crash detection and automatic recovery of the
internal counters.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
exactly does the offline clone & fail over work. </blockquote>
Granted, here we lack of documentation. Funny, just the other day
another forum user offered to write a respective tutorial once he's
mastered it with my forum help ;-)<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Does
anyone know </blockquote>
Who knows that?!<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">or
do you just "trust" that it works? <br>
</blockquote>
I never even trust existing documentation but always look into the
source code of the technologies I use. But that requires to learn
the tools needed to check it out.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">The
point of this whole tyrade was to suggest that if you put
something out there, document the hell out of it so we can
understand it </blockquote>
Generally that suggestion would have been valid (though not new).
You're just very bad in using the right words to make us listen.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">and
make it easy to get your samples. </blockquote>
All builds on our nice downloads page
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/downloads">http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/downloads</a> contain source bundles for
everything including the examples and the tests.<br>
<br>
We describe exactly how to install the sources (that include the
examples): <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO_Source_Installation">http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO_Source_Installation</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">I
found some CDO site hosted via CVS</blockquote>
Where?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
and they said just point to this and download it. </blockquote>
Who?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Well,
when you do that in Eclipse, it starts asking for
usernames/passwords and all this stuff which wasn't PUBLISHED. </blockquote>
Do what?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">The
part that I do overlook is all the spelling and grammatical
mistakes within a professional product, </blockquote>
A mistake; use your English eloquence to fix them!<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">but
all in all, the concepts and the intent should be clear. <br>
</blockquote>
Granted.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">If
you are putting a real production system together, I'm not so
comfortable doing that by blogs/forums and small shreds of
evidence that a technology exists. <br>
</blockquote>
I think the major advantage of open source technologies is generally
not so much the good documentation but the fact that in case of
problems everybody is free to investigate and possibly fix them, to
have an online connection to the helpful developers (try that in
case of problems with commercial products).<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Now
on to your challenge, Alan. Could I write something like CDO,
sure, most of us could. Would you want to? Probably not.
<br>
</blockquote>
So, what's the value in suggesting it eagerly?<br>
<br>
Cheers<br>
/Eike<br>
<br>
----<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.esc-net.de">http://www.esc-net.de</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://thegordian.blogspot.com">http://thegordian.blogspot.com</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://twitter.com/eikestepper">http://twitter.com/eikestepper</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</body>
</html>
-
Attachment: fdiechdh.png
(Size: 22.60KB, Downloaded 31 times)
|
|
|
| Re: Hello World CDO [message #880375 is a reply to message #880223] |
Fri, 01 June 2012 17:35 |
Eike Stepper
Messages: 5153
Registered: July 2009 |
Senior Member |
|
|
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
Am 01.06.2012 18:52, schrieb Allan Chase:
<blockquote cite="mid:jqas00$nsb$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Thanks
for your response Eike,
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">Is there a Hello World sample somewhere </blockquote>
Example plugins can be imported from your target platform into the
workspace once you've installed CDO.
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Well, I follow the instructions
perfectly and get an error message that the request was
invalid, so it isn't that easy.
<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
Please provide more information about this problem to help me to
help you.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqas00$nsb$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">that doesn't require understanding of
several frameworks just to get started? </blockquote>
CDO does not depend on any frameworks other than Net4j (included),
EMF (you obviously know it) and the database system of your
choice. Well, some optional features (e.g., OCL Query support)
require additional frameworks (e.g., OCL).
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Well, I hate to disagree, but you then
have to know something about additional frameworks (either
required or not), that relies on you knowing exactly how they
work. </blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
It's generally good to have intimate knowledge about all used
technologies "If you are putting a real production system together".<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqas00$nsb$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">So, to do a simple CDO sample, it
appears that you need CDO, </blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
Obviously.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqas00$nsb$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Net4J, </blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
I mentioned that explicitely. It's basically part of CDO.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqas00$nsb$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">EMF, </blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
Obviously.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqas00$nsb$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Hibernate? Teneo? </blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
Optional:<br>
<br>
<img src="http://www.eclipse.org/forums/index.php?t=getfile&id=10027" alt=""><br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqas00$nsb$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Probably the Eclipse Tools </blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
No. What are they?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqas00$nsb$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">and Modeling stuff too? </blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
Optional. I mentioned OCL as an example.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqas00$nsb$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">It just seems way too much.
<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
No. I repeat it: For your simple example you'd need a JDBC driver,
CDO and EMF.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqas00$nsb$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">I don't know SVN, GIT, EGIT, JGIT...blah
blah blah, </blockquote>
Some of these tools are mentioned on
wiki.eclipse.org/CDO_Source_Installation . Developers usually know
them.
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">Sure, but some of us only know and use
Clear Case. Again, tons of options to make mistakes with.
<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
That's life today. Or are you suggesting that we all learn Clear
Case only, now?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqas00$nsb$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">so downloading the Eclipsepedia samples
doesn't seem possible until I erase and load my operating system
with RedHat and go willy-nilly trapsing about update sites
hodge-podging my IDE together. </blockquote>
I'm not a native English speaker and have no time to look up these
funny words. Is there anything I'd miss if I skip them?
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">no, you wouldn't, this is ranting on my
part.
<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
I may mistranslate this word but ranting is not acceptable here.
Certainly not helpful, either.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqas00$nsb$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">because I'll probably just avoid this
whole thing and write something clean and sensible. </blockquote>
That being less work is usually an illusion.
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">I would almost agree with this, but I
can gaurentee </blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
You mean "guarantee"?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqas00$nsb$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">that NO ONE really understands
everything going on in todays frameworks(just point and click
right?). </blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
I disagree. I already mentioned that I use to look at the source
code of all the technologies I use.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqas00$nsb$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">So if something breaks in a large, very
critcal production system, guess what?
<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
The implication being what? Your own, not community-tested
implementation would not break? Its documentation would better guide
the operators?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqas00$nsb$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">Somewhere in here, there is an architect
that went off the reservation. </blockquote>
Again, I'm not a native speaker but to me this sounds insulting.
Can you please explain what you mean by this?
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">That was intended to be insulting, so
you are correct. </blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
Very bad practice!<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqas00$nsb$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">What I mean is that many Architects like
to stroke their huge egos by creating insanely abstract and
obtuse things that are infinitely confusing so they can
demonstrate how smart they are. Sure, they build something to
where you can swap out your database whenenver, but how many
times does one swap out large, very fundamental components to
a system? And what about the numerous layers between an
application and the database, what performance impacts does
that have on high end mission critical applications? Maybe
think about it this way, would you trust all these frameworks
together to help you fly an aircraft with 300 people on board?
<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
All this is very vague and unconcrete. You're generally not adding
additional layers to your technology stack to make things faster,
are you? Of course you are interested in the added convenience, in
the shorter development times and lower overall costs that
higher-level frameworks usually cause. And always you're not only
free but even obliged to validate your concrete non-functional
requirements against the stack you're about to choose.<br>
<br>
To get concrete again and because I'm in fact the main architect
behind CDO I do wonder what facts all your reproaches are based on,
given that you've obviously not managed to execute the examples or
read the documentation ;-(<br>
<br>
Cheers<br>
/Eike<br>
<br>
----<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.esc-net.de">http://www.esc-net.de</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://thegordian.blogspot.com">http://thegordian.blogspot.com</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://twitter.com/eikestepper">http://twitter.com/eikestepper</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</body>
</html>
-
Attachment: efjdajdh.png
(Size: 37.88KB, Downloaded 21 times)
|
|
|
| Re: Hello World CDO [message #880377 is a reply to message #880265] |
Fri, 01 June 2012 17:04 |
Eike Stepper
Messages: 5153
Registered: July 2009 |
Senior Member |
|
|
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
Am 01.06.2012 20:16, schrieb Allan Chase:
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Seems
like I have struck a chord. So now you've apparently caught a
fraction of my overall frustration </blockquote>
Frustration about what? The lack of documentation that *some*
commercial (read: expensive) frameworks? Are you willing to pay for
better documentation?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">and
that was the intent.
<br>
</blockquote>
No, that wasn't your intent or you'd have found nicer words to make
that clear. Probably just a lack of social skills...<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
<br>
I like your final statement, because it talks about the title of
this thread. What does CDO offer? </blockquote>
Have a look at the documentation:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/documentation">http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/documentation</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Is
there enough documentation (low level, real code, real samples)
that can discuss using CDO as a model repository vs. as a runtime
persistence mechanism? </blockquote>
Certainly there's not enough documentation. Neither the spare time
committers and contributors nor those that come from commercial
consumer companies seem to be willing to invest more into the
documentation than into actual new features or stability
improvements. Have *you* ever contributed back to the free stuff
you're using. With your excellent English language skills you seem
to be predestined.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">And
are there ample execeptions that come back when transactions
fail? </blockquote>
Do you have concrete experiences of insufficient failure feedback?
Bug reports are an adequate means to complain concretely and
constructively. That's also a way to contribute back, and cheap.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Can
you performance and tune such a creature? </blockquote>
The wiki has a lot of hints:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO/Tweaking_Performance">http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO/Tweaking_Performance</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
does the security model work, is it role based or? </blockquote>
In the context of a German research project we currently design a
default security model that helps to configure the low-level hooks
more conveniently. Criticism in the form of constructive suggestions
is most welcome:<br>
<br>
<img src="http://www.eclipse.org/forums/index.php?t=getfile&id=10028" alt=""><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
well does it recover from catastrophic errors? </blockquote>
That's backend-specific. The default DBStore relies on the
mechanisms that exist in the physical SQL database that's used and
supports additional crash detection and automatic recovery of the
internal counters.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
exactly does the offline clone & fail over work. </blockquote>
Granted, here we lack of documentation. Funny, just the other day
another forum user offered to write a respective tutorial once he's
mastered it with my forum help ;-)<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Does
anyone know </blockquote>
Who knows that?!<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">or
do you just "trust" that it works? <br>
</blockquote>
I never even trust existing documentation but always look into the
source code of the technologies I use. But that requires to learn
the tools needed to check it out.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">The
point of this whole tyrade was to suggest that if you put
something out there, document the hell out of it so we can
understand it </blockquote>
Generally that suggestion would have been valid (though not new).
You're just very bad in using the right words to make us listen.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">and
make it easy to get your samples. </blockquote>
All builds on our nice downloads page
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/downloads">http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/downloads</a> contain source bundles for
everything including the examples and the tests.<br>
<br>
We describe exactly how to install the sources (that include the
examples): <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO_Source_Installation">http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO_Source_Installation</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">I
found some CDO site hosted via CVS</blockquote>
Where?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
and they said just point to this and download it. </blockquote>
Who?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Well,
when you do that in Eclipse, it starts asking for
usernames/passwords and all this stuff which wasn't PUBLISHED. </blockquote>
Do what?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">The
part that I do overlook is all the spelling and grammatical
mistakes within a professional product, </blockquote>
A mistake; use your English eloquence to fix them!<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">but
all in all, the concepts and the intent should be clear. <br>
</blockquote>
Granted.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">If
you are putting a real production system together, I'm not so
comfortable doing that by blogs/forums and small shreds of
evidence that a technology exists. <br>
</blockquote>
I think the major advantage of open source technologies is generally
not so much the good documentation but the fact that in case of
problems everybody is free to investigate and possibly fix them, to
have an online connection to the helpful developers (try that in
case of problems with commercial products).<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Now
on to your challenge, Alan. Could I write something like CDO,
sure, most of us could. Would you want to? Probably not.
<br>
</blockquote>
So, what's the value in suggesting it eagerly?<br>
<br>
Cheers<br>
/Eike<br>
<br>
----<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.esc-net.de">http://www.esc-net.de</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://thegordian.blogspot.com">http://thegordian.blogspot.com</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://twitter.com/eikestepper">http://twitter.com/eikestepper</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</body>
</html>
-
Attachment: fdiechdh.png
(Size: 22.60KB, Downloaded 28 times)
|
|
|
| Re: Hello World CDO [message #880379 is a reply to message #880265] |
Fri, 01 June 2012 17:04 |
Eike Stepper
Messages: 5153
Registered: July 2009 |
Senior Member |
|
|
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
Am 01.06.2012 20:16, schrieb Allan Chase:
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Seems
like I have struck a chord. So now you've apparently caught a
fraction of my overall frustration </blockquote>
Frustration about what? The lack of documentation that *some*
commercial (read: expensive) frameworks? Are you willing to pay for
better documentation?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">and
that was the intent.
<br>
</blockquote>
No, that wasn't your intent or you'd have found nicer words to make
that clear. Probably just a lack of social skills...<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
<br>
I like your final statement, because it talks about the title of
this thread. What does CDO offer? </blockquote>
Have a look at the documentation:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/documentation">http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/documentation</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Is
there enough documentation (low level, real code, real samples)
that can discuss using CDO as a model repository vs. as a runtime
persistence mechanism? </blockquote>
Certainly there's not enough documentation. Neither the spare time
committers and contributors nor those that come from commercial
consumer companies seem to be willing to invest more into the
documentation than into actual new features or stability
improvements. Have *you* ever contributed back to the free stuff
you're using. With your excellent English language skills you seem
to be predestined.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">And
are there ample execeptions that come back when transactions
fail? </blockquote>
Do you have concrete experiences of insufficient failure feedback?
Bug reports are an adequate means to complain concretely and
constructively. That's also a way to contribute back, and cheap.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Can
you performance and tune such a creature? </blockquote>
The wiki has a lot of hints:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO/Tweaking_Performance">http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO/Tweaking_Performance</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
does the security model work, is it role based or? </blockquote>
In the context of a German research project we currently design a
default security model that helps to configure the low-level hooks
more conveniently. Criticism in the form of constructive suggestions
is most welcome:<br>
<br>
<img src="http://www.eclipse.org/forums/index.php?t=getfile&id=10029" alt=""><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
well does it recover from catastrophic errors? </blockquote>
That's backend-specific. The default DBStore relies on the
mechanisms that exist in the physical SQL database that's used and
supports additional crash detection and automatic recovery of the
internal counters.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
exactly does the offline clone & fail over work. </blockquote>
Granted, here we lack of documentation. Funny, just the other day
another forum user offered to write a respective tutorial once he's
mastered it with my forum help ;-)<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Does
anyone know </blockquote>
Who knows that?!<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">or
do you just "trust" that it works? <br>
</blockquote>
I never even trust existing documentation but always look into the
source code of the technologies I use. But that requires to learn
the tools needed to check it out.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">The
point of this whole tyrade was to suggest that if you put
something out there, document the hell out of it so we can
understand it </blockquote>
Generally that suggestion would have been valid (though not new).
You're just very bad in using the right words to make us listen.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">and
make it easy to get your samples. </blockquote>
All builds on our nice downloads page
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/downloads">http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/downloads</a> contain source bundles for
everything including the examples and the tests.<br>
<br>
We describe exactly how to install the sources (that include the
examples): <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO_Source_Installation">http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO_Source_Installation</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">I
found some CDO site hosted via CVS</blockquote>
Where?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
and they said just point to this and download it. </blockquote>
Who?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Well,
when you do that in Eclipse, it starts asking for
usernames/passwords and all this stuff which wasn't PUBLISHED. </blockquote>
Do what?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">The
part that I do overlook is all the spelling and grammatical
mistakes within a professional product, </blockquote>
A mistake; use your English eloquence to fix them!<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">but
all in all, the concepts and the intent should be clear. <br>
</blockquote>
Granted.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">If
you are putting a real production system together, I'm not so
comfortable doing that by blogs/forums and small shreds of
evidence that a technology exists. <br>
</blockquote>
I think the major advantage of open source technologies is generally
not so much the good documentation but the fact that in case of
problems everybody is free to investigate and possibly fix them, to
have an online connection to the helpful developers (try that in
case of problems with commercial products).<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Now
on to your challenge, Alan. Could I write something like CDO,
sure, most of us could. Would you want to? Probably not.
<br>
</blockquote>
So, what's the value in suggesting it eagerly?<br>
<br>
Cheers<br>
/Eike<br>
<br>
----<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.esc-net.de">http://www.esc-net.de</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://thegordian.blogspot.com">http://thegordian.blogspot.com</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://twitter.com/eikestepper">http://twitter.com/eikestepper</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</body>
</html>
-
Attachment: fdiechdh.png
(Size: 22.60KB, Downloaded 20 times)
|
|
|
| Re: Hello World CDO [message #880381 is a reply to message #880265] |
Fri, 01 June 2012 17:04 |
Eike Stepper
Messages: 5153
Registered: July 2009 |
Senior Member |
|
|
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
Am 01.06.2012 20:16, schrieb Allan Chase:
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Seems
like I have struck a chord. So now you've apparently caught a
fraction of my overall frustration </blockquote>
Frustration about what? The lack of documentation that *some*
commercial (read: expensive) frameworks? Are you willing to pay for
better documentation?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">and
that was the intent.
<br>
</blockquote>
No, that wasn't your intent or you'd have found nicer words to make
that clear. Probably just a lack of social skills...<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
<br>
I like your final statement, because it talks about the title of
this thread. What does CDO offer? </blockquote>
Have a look at the documentation:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/documentation">http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/documentation</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Is
there enough documentation (low level, real code, real samples)
that can discuss using CDO as a model repository vs. as a runtime
persistence mechanism? </blockquote>
Certainly there's not enough documentation. Neither the spare time
committers and contributors nor those that come from commercial
consumer companies seem to be willing to invest more into the
documentation than into actual new features or stability
improvements. Have *you* ever contributed back to the free stuff
you're using. With your excellent English language skills you seem
to be predestined.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">And
are there ample execeptions that come back when transactions
fail? </blockquote>
Do you have concrete experiences of insufficient failure feedback?
Bug reports are an adequate means to complain concretely and
constructively. That's also a way to contribute back, and cheap.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Can
you performance and tune such a creature? </blockquote>
The wiki has a lot of hints:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO/Tweaking_Performance">http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO/Tweaking_Performance</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
does the security model work, is it role based or? </blockquote>
In the context of a German research project we currently design a
default security model that helps to configure the low-level hooks
more conveniently. Criticism in the form of constructive suggestions
is most welcome:<br>
<br>
<img src="http://www.eclipse.org/forums/index.php?t=getfile&id=10030" alt=""><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
well does it recover from catastrophic errors? </blockquote>
That's backend-specific. The default DBStore relies on the
mechanisms that exist in the physical SQL database that's used and
supports additional crash detection and automatic recovery of the
internal counters.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
exactly does the offline clone & fail over work. </blockquote>
Granted, here we lack of documentation. Funny, just the other day
another forum user offered to write a respective tutorial once he's
mastered it with my forum help ;-)<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Does
anyone know </blockquote>
Who knows that?!<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">or
do you just "trust" that it works? <br>
</blockquote>
I never even trust existing documentation but always look into the
source code of the technologies I use. But that requires to learn
the tools needed to check it out.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">The
point of this whole tyrade was to suggest that if you put
something out there, document the hell out of it so we can
understand it </blockquote>
Generally that suggestion would have been valid (though not new).
You're just very bad in using the right words to make us listen.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">and
make it easy to get your samples. </blockquote>
All builds on our nice downloads page
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/downloads">http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/downloads</a> contain source bundles for
everything including the examples and the tests.<br>
<br>
We describe exactly how to install the sources (that include the
examples): <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO_Source_Installation">http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO_Source_Installation</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">I
found some CDO site hosted via CVS</blockquote>
Where?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
and they said just point to this and download it. </blockquote>
Who?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Well,
when you do that in Eclipse, it starts asking for
usernames/passwords and all this stuff which wasn't PUBLISHED. </blockquote>
Do what?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">The
part that I do overlook is all the spelling and grammatical
mistakes within a professional product, </blockquote>
A mistake; use your English eloquence to fix them!<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">but
all in all, the concepts and the intent should be clear. <br>
</blockquote>
Granted.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">If
you are putting a real production system together, I'm not so
comfortable doing that by blogs/forums and small shreds of
evidence that a technology exists. <br>
</blockquote>
I think the major advantage of open source technologies is generally
not so much the good documentation but the fact that in case of
problems everybody is free to investigate and possibly fix them, to
have an online connection to the helpful developers (try that in
case of problems with commercial products).<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Now
on to your challenge, Alan. Could I write something like CDO,
sure, most of us could. Would you want to? Probably not.
<br>
</blockquote>
So, what's the value in suggesting it eagerly?<br>
<br>
Cheers<br>
/Eike<br>
<br>
----<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.esc-net.de">http://www.esc-net.de</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://thegordian.blogspot.com">http://thegordian.blogspot.com</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://twitter.com/eikestepper">http://twitter.com/eikestepper</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</body>
</html>
-
Attachment: fdiechdh.png
(Size: 22.60KB, Downloaded 21 times)
|
|
|
| Re: Hello World CDO [message #880383 is a reply to message #880265] |
Fri, 01 June 2012 17:04 |
Eike Stepper
Messages: 5153
Registered: July 2009 |
Senior Member |
|
|
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
Am 01.06.2012 20:16, schrieb Allan Chase:
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Seems
like I have struck a chord. So now you've apparently caught a
fraction of my overall frustration </blockquote>
Frustration about what? The lack of documentation that *some*
commercial (read: expensive) frameworks? Are you willing to pay for
better documentation?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">and
that was the intent.
<br>
</blockquote>
No, that wasn't your intent or you'd have found nicer words to make
that clear. Probably just a lack of social skills...<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
<br>
I like your final statement, because it talks about the title of
this thread. What does CDO offer? </blockquote>
Have a look at the documentation:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/documentation">http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/documentation</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Is
there enough documentation (low level, real code, real samples)
that can discuss using CDO as a model repository vs. as a runtime
persistence mechanism? </blockquote>
Certainly there's not enough documentation. Neither the spare time
committers and contributors nor those that come from commercial
consumer companies seem to be willing to invest more into the
documentation than into actual new features or stability
improvements. Have *you* ever contributed back to the free stuff
you're using. With your excellent English language skills you seem
to be predestined.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">And
are there ample execeptions that come back when transactions
fail? </blockquote>
Do you have concrete experiences of insufficient failure feedback?
Bug reports are an adequate means to complain concretely and
constructively. That's also a way to contribute back, and cheap.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Can
you performance and tune such a creature? </blockquote>
The wiki has a lot of hints:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO/Tweaking_Performance">http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO/Tweaking_Performance</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
does the security model work, is it role based or? </blockquote>
In the context of a German research project we currently design a
default security model that helps to configure the low-level hooks
more conveniently. Criticism in the form of constructive suggestions
is most welcome:<br>
<br>
<img src="http://www.eclipse.org/forums/index.php?t=getfile&id=10031" alt=""><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
well does it recover from catastrophic errors? </blockquote>
That's backend-specific. The default DBStore relies on the
mechanisms that exist in the physical SQL database that's used and
supports additional crash detection and automatic recovery of the
internal counters.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
exactly does the offline clone & fail over work. </blockquote>
Granted, here we lack of documentation. Funny, just the other day
another forum user offered to write a respective tutorial once he's
mastered it with my forum help ;-)<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Does
anyone know </blockquote>
Who knows that?!<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">or
do you just "trust" that it works? <br>
</blockquote>
I never even trust existing documentation but always look into the
source code of the technologies I use. But that requires to learn
the tools needed to check it out.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">The
point of this whole tyrade was to suggest that if you put
something out there, document the hell out of it so we can
understand it </blockquote>
Generally that suggestion would have been valid (though not new).
You're just very bad in using the right words to make us listen.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">and
make it easy to get your samples. </blockquote>
All builds on our nice downloads page
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/downloads">http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/downloads</a> contain source bundles for
everything including the examples and the tests.<br>
<br>
We describe exactly how to install the sources (that include the
examples): <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO_Source_Installation">http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO_Source_Installation</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">I
found some CDO site hosted via CVS</blockquote>
Where?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
and they said just point to this and download it. </blockquote>
Who?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Well,
when you do that in Eclipse, it starts asking for
usernames/passwords and all this stuff which wasn't PUBLISHED. </blockquote>
Do what?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">The
part that I do overlook is all the spelling and grammatical
mistakes within a professional product, </blockquote>
A mistake; use your English eloquence to fix them!<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">but
all in all, the concepts and the intent should be clear. <br>
</blockquote>
Granted.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">If
you are putting a real production system together, I'm not so
comfortable doing that by blogs/forums and small shreds of
evidence that a technology exists. <br>
</blockquote>
I think the major advantage of open source technologies is generally
not so much the good documentation but the fact that in case of
problems everybody is free to investigate and possibly fix them, to
have an online connection to the helpful developers (try that in
case of problems with commercial products).<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Now
on to your challenge, Alan. Could I write something like CDO,
sure, most of us could. Would you want to? Probably not.
<br>
</blockquote>
So, what's the value in suggesting it eagerly?<br>
<br>
Cheers<br>
/Eike<br>
<br>
----<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.esc-net.de">http://www.esc-net.de</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://thegordian.blogspot.com">http://thegordian.blogspot.com</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://twitter.com/eikestepper">http://twitter.com/eikestepper</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</body>
</html>
-
Attachment: fdiechdh.png
(Size: 22.60KB, Downloaded 19 times)
|
|
|
| Re: Hello World CDO [message #880386 is a reply to message #880265] |
Fri, 01 June 2012 17:04 |
Eike Stepper
Messages: 5153
Registered: July 2009 |
Senior Member |
|
|
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
Am 01.06.2012 20:16, schrieb Allan Chase:
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Seems
like I have struck a chord. So now you've apparently caught a
fraction of my overall frustration </blockquote>
Frustration about what? The lack of documentation that *some*
commercial (read: expensive) frameworks? Are you willing to pay for
better documentation?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">and
that was the intent.
<br>
</blockquote>
No, that wasn't your intent or you'd have found nicer words to make
that clear. Probably just a lack of social skills...<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
<br>
I like your final statement, because it talks about the title of
this thread. What does CDO offer? </blockquote>
Have a look at the documentation:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/documentation">http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/documentation</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Is
there enough documentation (low level, real code, real samples)
that can discuss using CDO as a model repository vs. as a runtime
persistence mechanism? </blockquote>
Certainly there's not enough documentation. Neither the spare time
committers and contributors nor those that come from commercial
consumer companies seem to be willing to invest more into the
documentation than into actual new features or stability
improvements. Have *you* ever contributed back to the free stuff
you're using. With your excellent English language skills you seem
to be predestined.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">And
are there ample execeptions that come back when transactions
fail? </blockquote>
Do you have concrete experiences of insufficient failure feedback?
Bug reports are an adequate means to complain concretely and
constructively. That's also a way to contribute back, and cheap.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Can
you performance and tune such a creature? </blockquote>
The wiki has a lot of hints:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO/Tweaking_Performance">http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO/Tweaking_Performance</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
does the security model work, is it role based or? </blockquote>
In the context of a German research project we currently design a
default security model that helps to configure the low-level hooks
more conveniently. Criticism in the form of constructive suggestions
is most welcome:<br>
<br>
<img src="http://www.eclipse.org/forums/index.php?t=getfile&id=10032" alt=""><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
well does it recover from catastrophic errors? </blockquote>
That's backend-specific. The default DBStore relies on the
mechanisms that exist in the physical SQL database that's used and
supports additional crash detection and automatic recovery of the
internal counters.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
exactly does the offline clone & fail over work. </blockquote>
Granted, here we lack of documentation. Funny, just the other day
another forum user offered to write a respective tutorial once he's
mastered it with my forum help ;-)<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Does
anyone know </blockquote>
Who knows that?!<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">or
do you just "trust" that it works? <br>
</blockquote>
I never even trust existing documentation but always look into the
source code of the technologies I use. But that requires to learn
the tools needed to check it out.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">The
point of this whole tyrade was to suggest that if you put
something out there, document the hell out of it so we can
understand it </blockquote>
Generally that suggestion would have been valid (though not new).
You're just very bad in using the right words to make us listen.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">and
make it easy to get your samples. </blockquote>
All builds on our nice downloads page
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/downloads">http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/downloads</a> contain source bundles for
everything including the examples and the tests.<br>
<br>
We describe exactly how to install the sources (that include the
examples): <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO_Source_Installation">http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO_Source_Installation</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">I
found some CDO site hosted via CVS</blockquote>
Where?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
and they said just point to this and download it. </blockquote>
Who?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Well,
when you do that in Eclipse, it starts asking for
usernames/passwords and all this stuff which wasn't PUBLISHED. </blockquote>
Do what?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">The
part that I do overlook is all the spelling and grammatical
mistakes within a professional product, </blockquote>
A mistake; use your English eloquence to fix them!<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">but
all in all, the concepts and the intent should be clear. <br>
</blockquote>
Granted.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">If
you are putting a real production system together, I'm not so
comfortable doing that by blogs/forums and small shreds of
evidence that a technology exists. <br>
</blockquote>
I think the major advantage of open source technologies is generally
not so much the good documentation but the fact that in case of
problems everybody is free to investigate and possibly fix them, to
have an online connection to the helpful developers (try that in
case of problems with commercial products).<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Now
on to your challenge, Alan. Could I write something like CDO,
sure, most of us could. Would you want to? Probably not.
<br>
</blockquote>
So, what's the value in suggesting it eagerly?<br>
<br>
Cheers<br>
/Eike<br>
<br>
----<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.esc-net.de">http://www.esc-net.de</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://thegordian.blogspot.com">http://thegordian.blogspot.com</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://twitter.com/eikestepper">http://twitter.com/eikestepper</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</body>
</html>
-
Attachment: fdiechdh.png
(Size: 22.60KB, Downloaded 25 times)
|
|
|
| Re: Hello World CDO [message #880388 is a reply to message #880265] |
Fri, 01 June 2012 17:04 |
Eike Stepper
Messages: 5153
Registered: July 2009 |
Senior Member |
|
|
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
Am 01.06.2012 20:16, schrieb Allan Chase:
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Seems
like I have struck a chord. So now you've apparently caught a
fraction of my overall frustration </blockquote>
Frustration about what? The lack of documentation that *some*
commercial (read: expensive) frameworks? Are you willing to pay for
better documentation?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">and
that was the intent.
<br>
</blockquote>
No, that wasn't your intent or you'd have found nicer words to make
that clear. Probably just a lack of social skills...<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
<br>
I like your final statement, because it talks about the title of
this thread. What does CDO offer? </blockquote>
Have a look at the documentation:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/documentation">http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/documentation</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Is
there enough documentation (low level, real code, real samples)
that can discuss using CDO as a model repository vs. as a runtime
persistence mechanism? </blockquote>
Certainly there's not enough documentation. Neither the spare time
committers and contributors nor those that come from commercial
consumer companies seem to be willing to invest more into the
documentation than into actual new features or stability
improvements. Have *you* ever contributed back to the free stuff
you're using. With your excellent English language skills you seem
to be predestined.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">And
are there ample execeptions that come back when transactions
fail? </blockquote>
Do you have concrete experiences of insufficient failure feedback?
Bug reports are an adequate means to complain concretely and
constructively. That's also a way to contribute back, and cheap.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Can
you performance and tune such a creature? </blockquote>
The wiki has a lot of hints:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO/Tweaking_Performance">http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO/Tweaking_Performance</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
does the security model work, is it role based or? </blockquote>
In the context of a German research project we currently design a
default security model that helps to configure the low-level hooks
more conveniently. Criticism in the form of constructive suggestions
is most welcome:<br>
<br>
<img src="http://www.eclipse.org/forums/index.php?t=getfile&id=10033" alt=""><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
well does it recover from catastrophic errors? </blockquote>
That's backend-specific. The default DBStore relies on the
mechanisms that exist in the physical SQL database that's used and
supports additional crash detection and automatic recovery of the
internal counters.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
exactly does the offline clone & fail over work. </blockquote>
Granted, here we lack of documentation. Funny, just the other day
another forum user offered to write a respective tutorial once he's
mastered it with my forum help ;-)<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Does
anyone know </blockquote>
Who knows that?!<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">or
do you just "trust" that it works? <br>
</blockquote>
I never even trust existing documentation but always look into the
source code of the technologies I use. But that requires to learn
the tools needed to check it out.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">The
point of this whole tyrade was to suggest that if you put
something out there, document the hell out of it so we can
understand it </blockquote>
Generally that suggestion would have been valid (though not new).
You're just very bad in using the right words to make us listen.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">and
make it easy to get your samples. </blockquote>
All builds on our nice downloads page
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/downloads">http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/downloads</a> contain source bundles for
everything including the examples and the tests.<br>
<br>
We describe exactly how to install the sources (that include the
examples): <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO_Source_Installation">http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO_Source_Installation</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">I
found some CDO site hosted via CVS</blockquote>
Where?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
and they said just point to this and download it. </blockquote>
Who?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Well,
when you do that in Eclipse, it starts asking for
usernames/passwords and all this stuff which wasn't PUBLISHED. </blockquote>
Do what?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">The
part that I do overlook is all the spelling and grammatical
mistakes within a professional product, </blockquote>
A mistake; use your English eloquence to fix them!<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">but
all in all, the concepts and the intent should be clear. <br>
</blockquote>
Granted.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">If
you are putting a real production system together, I'm not so
comfortable doing that by blogs/forums and small shreds of
evidence that a technology exists. <br>
</blockquote>
I think the major advantage of open source technologies is generally
not so much the good documentation but the fact that in case of
problems everybody is free to investigate and possibly fix them, to
have an online connection to the helpful developers (try that in
case of problems with commercial products).<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Now
on to your challenge, Alan. Could I write something like CDO,
sure, most of us could. Would you want to? Probably not.
<br>
</blockquote>
So, what's the value in suggesting it eagerly?<br>
<br>
Cheers<br>
/Eike<br>
<br>
----<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.esc-net.de">http://www.esc-net.de</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://thegordian.blogspot.com">http://thegordian.blogspot.com</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://twitter.com/eikestepper">http://twitter.com/eikestepper</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</body>
</html>
-
Attachment: fdiechdh.png
(Size: 22.60KB, Downloaded 18 times)
|
|
|
| Re: Hello World CDO [message #880390 is a reply to message #880265] |
Fri, 01 June 2012 17:04 |
Eike Stepper
Messages: 5153
Registered: July 2009 |
Senior Member |
|
|
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
Am 01.06.2012 20:16, schrieb Allan Chase:
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Seems
like I have struck a chord. So now you've apparently caught a
fraction of my overall frustration </blockquote>
Frustration about what? The lack of documentation that *some*
commercial (read: expensive) frameworks? Are you willing to pay for
better documentation?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">and
that was the intent.
<br>
</blockquote>
No, that wasn't your intent or you'd have found nicer words to make
that clear. Probably just a lack of social skills...<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
<br>
I like your final statement, because it talks about the title of
this thread. What does CDO offer? </blockquote>
Have a look at the documentation:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/documentation">http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/documentation</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Is
there enough documentation (low level, real code, real samples)
that can discuss using CDO as a model repository vs. as a runtime
persistence mechanism? </blockquote>
Certainly there's not enough documentation. Neither the spare time
committers and contributors nor those that come from commercial
consumer companies seem to be willing to invest more into the
documentation than into actual new features or stability
improvements. Have *you* ever contributed back to the free stuff
you're using. With your excellent English language skills you seem
to be predestined.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">And
are there ample execeptions that come back when transactions
fail? </blockquote>
Do you have concrete experiences of insufficient failure feedback?
Bug reports are an adequate means to complain concretely and
constructively. That's also a way to contribute back, and cheap.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Can
you performance and tune such a creature? </blockquote>
The wiki has a lot of hints:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO/Tweaking_Performance">http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO/Tweaking_Performance</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
does the security model work, is it role based or? </blockquote>
In the context of a German research project we currently design a
default security model that helps to configure the low-level hooks
more conveniently. Criticism in the form of constructive suggestions
is most welcome:<br>
<br>
<img src="http://www.eclipse.org/forums/index.php?t=getfile&id=10034" alt=""><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
well does it recover from catastrophic errors? </blockquote>
That's backend-specific. The default DBStore relies on the
mechanisms that exist in the physical SQL database that's used and
supports additional crash detection and automatic recovery of the
internal counters.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
exactly does the offline clone & fail over work. </blockquote>
Granted, here we lack of documentation. Funny, just the other day
another forum user offered to write a respective tutorial once he's
mastered it with my forum help ;-)<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Does
anyone know </blockquote>
Who knows that?!<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">or
do you just "trust" that it works? <br>
</blockquote>
I never even trust existing documentation but always look into the
source code of the technologies I use. But that requires to learn
the tools needed to check it out.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">The
point of this whole tyrade was to suggest that if you put
something out there, document the hell out of it so we can
understand it </blockquote>
Generally that suggestion would have been valid (though not new).
You're just very bad in using the right words to make us listen.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">and
make it easy to get your samples. </blockquote>
All builds on our nice downloads page
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/downloads">http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/downloads</a> contain source bundles for
everything including the examples and the tests.<br>
<br>
We describe exactly how to install the sources (that include the
examples): <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO_Source_Installation">http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO_Source_Installation</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">I
found some CDO site hosted via CVS</blockquote>
Where?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
and they said just point to this and download it. </blockquote>
Who?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Well,
when you do that in Eclipse, it starts asking for
usernames/passwords and all this stuff which wasn't PUBLISHED. </blockquote>
Do what?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">The
part that I do overlook is all the spelling and grammatical
mistakes within a professional product, </blockquote>
A mistake; use your English eloquence to fix them!<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">but
all in all, the concepts and the intent should be clear. <br>
</blockquote>
Granted.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">If
you are putting a real production system together, I'm not so
comfortable doing that by blogs/forums and small shreds of
evidence that a technology exists. <br>
</blockquote>
I think the major advantage of open source technologies is generally
not so much the good documentation but the fact that in case of
problems everybody is free to investigate and possibly fix them, to
have an online connection to the helpful developers (try that in
case of problems with commercial products).<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Now
on to your challenge, Alan. Could I write something like CDO,
sure, most of us could. Would you want to? Probably not.
<br>
</blockquote>
So, what's the value in suggesting it eagerly?<br>
<br>
Cheers<br>
/Eike<br>
<br>
----<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.esc-net.de">http://www.esc-net.de</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://thegordian.blogspot.com">http://thegordian.blogspot.com</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://twitter.com/eikestepper">http://twitter.com/eikestepper</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</body>
</html>
-
Attachment: fdiechdh.png
(Size: 22.60KB, Downloaded 7 times)
|
|
|
| Re: Hello World CDO [message #880392 is a reply to message #880265] |
Fri, 01 June 2012 17:04 |
Eike Stepper
Messages: 5153
Registered: July 2009 |
Senior Member |
|
|
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
Am 01.06.2012 20:16, schrieb Allan Chase:
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Seems
like I have struck a chord. So now you've apparently caught a
fraction of my overall frustration </blockquote>
Frustration about what? The lack of documentation that *some*
commercial (read: expensive) frameworks? Are you willing to pay for
better documentation?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">and
that was the intent.
<br>
</blockquote>
No, that wasn't your intent or you'd have found nicer words to make
that clear. Probably just a lack of social skills...<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
<br>
I like your final statement, because it talks about the title of
this thread. What does CDO offer? </blockquote>
Have a look at the documentation:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/documentation">http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/documentation</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Is
there enough documentation (low level, real code, real samples)
that can discuss using CDO as a model repository vs. as a runtime
persistence mechanism? </blockquote>
Certainly there's not enough documentation. Neither the spare time
committers and contributors nor those that come from commercial
consumer companies seem to be willing to invest more into the
documentation than into actual new features or stability
improvements. Have *you* ever contributed back to the free stuff
you're using. With your excellent English language skills you seem
to be predestined.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">And
are there ample execeptions that come back when transactions
fail? </blockquote>
Do you have concrete experiences of insufficient failure feedback?
Bug reports are an adequate means to complain concretely and
constructively. That's also a way to contribute back, and cheap.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Can
you performance and tune such a creature? </blockquote>
The wiki has a lot of hints:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO/Tweaking_Performance">http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO/Tweaking_Performance</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
does the security model work, is it role based or? </blockquote>
In the context of a German research project we currently design a
default security model that helps to configure the low-level hooks
more conveniently. Criticism in the form of constructive suggestions
is most welcome:<br>
<br>
<img src="http://www.eclipse.org/forums/index.php?t=getfile&id=10035" alt=""><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
well does it recover from catastrophic errors? </blockquote>
That's backend-specific. The default DBStore relies on the
mechanisms that exist in the physical SQL database that's used and
supports additional crash detection and automatic recovery of the
internal counters.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">How
exactly does the offline clone & fail over work. </blockquote>
Granted, here we lack of documentation. Funny, just the other day
another forum user offered to write a respective tutorial once he's
mastered it with my forum help ;-)<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Does
anyone know </blockquote>
Who knows that?!<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">or
do you just "trust" that it works? <br>
</blockquote>
I never even trust existing documentation but always look into the
source code of the technologies I use. But that requires to learn
the tools needed to check it out.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">The
point of this whole tyrade was to suggest that if you put
something out there, document the hell out of it so we can
understand it </blockquote>
Generally that suggestion would have been valid (though not new).
You're just very bad in using the right words to make us listen.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">and
make it easy to get your samples. </blockquote>
All builds on our nice downloads page
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/downloads">http://www.eclipse.org/cdo/downloads</a> contain source bundles for
everything including the examples and the tests.<br>
<br>
We describe exactly how to install the sources (that include the
examples): <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO_Source_Installation">http://wiki.eclipse.org/CDO_Source_Installation</a><br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">I
found some CDO site hosted via CVS</blockquote>
Where?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">
and they said just point to this and download it. </blockquote>
Who?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Well,
when you do that in Eclipse, it starts asking for
usernames/passwords and all this stuff which wasn't PUBLISHED. </blockquote>
Do what?<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">The
part that I do overlook is all the spelling and grammatical
mistakes within a professional product, </blockquote>
A mistake; use your English eloquence to fix them!<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">but
all in all, the concepts and the intent should be clear. <br>
</blockquote>
Granted.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">If
you are putting a real production system together, I'm not so
comfortable doing that by blogs/forums and small shreds of
evidence that a technology exists. <br>
</blockquote>
I think the major advantage of open source technologies is generally
not so much the good documentation but the fact that in case of
problems everybody is free to investigate and possibly fix them, to
have an online connection to the helpful developers (try that in
case of problems with commercial products).<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:jqb0tu$205$1@xxxxxxxxe.org" type="cite">Now
on to your challenge, Alan. Could I write something like CDO,
sure, most of us could. Would you want to? Probably not.
<br>
</blockquote>
So, what's the value in suggesting it eagerly?<br>
<br>
Cheers<br>
/Eike<br>
<br>
----<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.esc-net.de">http://www.esc-net.de</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://thegordian.blogspot.com">http://thegordian.blogspot.com</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://twitter.com/eikestepper">http://twitter.com/eikestepper</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</body>
</html>
-
Attachment: fdiechdh.png
(Size: 22.60KB, Downloaded 8 times)
|
|
|
Goto Forum:
Current Time: Tue May 21 14:41:47 EDT 2013
Powered by FUDForum. Page generated in 0.04815 seconds
|
] 
Search
Help
Register
Login
Home
